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Buell Forum » Big, Bad & Dirty (Buell XB12X Ulysses Adventure Board) » Rear wheel bearing problem (spinning in hub) « Previous Next »

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Dan_m
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 02:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hello guys , i'm dealing with an issue at the rear wheel bearing, on the right side. My problem is that somehow the bearing managed to spin in the hub, thus when removing the wheel for a tire change, the bearing literally dropped by its weight. Also, when installing only pressing with one finger i was able to set it in the hub.
As for a history record: this is my second rear tire on this bike since i own it. At first tire change, ~11 000km ago, i replaced also rear wheel bearings with SKF and the installation went how it should be (my technique was to cut the outer race from an old bearing, and use it to drive the new bearing in the hub by applying light hammer taps on all sides).
So, does any of you experienced the same issue on this bike, or am i the only one? What is my best approach to fix this: to use loctite 609 at every bearing change (although i don't know how easy it will be to remove the bearings in the future) or to take the wheel to a machine shop to remove some material from the wheel hub and fabricate a sleeve?

(Message edited by dan_m on June 08, 2017)
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Ratbuell
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 02:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

....and this is why bearings should not be replaced until they fail. Steel bearing faces are harder than aluminum wheel hubs, and repeated removals will trash the wheel.

You can use loctite, I have heard of that being done.
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Rays
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 05:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Dan, my '06 had this exact issue but much later in it's life.
I changed the rear bearings at ~28,000miles (45,000km) and because I didn't have the tools took the bare wheel into the HD dealer because they would would have the right tools and the skills - right?
Wrong -they simply got one of their gorilla mechanics to drive then out with a drift - "sorry about the gouge in your spacer and wheel, we won't charge for the job".
That action walked the bearings out and inevitably removed more material from the wheel than other more scientific methods might. I went through all the normal BS fitting the new bearings with a shop made bearing puller, heating the hub and cooling the bearings. That seemed to work really well as they went in super-easy. Little did I realise they were already doomed.
At ~50,000miles (82,000km) I noticed a strange intermittent clicking when pushing the bike and put it down to water in the drive side bearing and tired cleaning/greasing.
At the next tyre change I was surprised to find the drive side bearing simply fell out and found myself in your position. All of the past events fell into place and it must have been that one bearing removal that torched my hub as these were only the second set from new - it doesn't take much.
Anyway, I ordered 3-bearing wheel but that had to come in from the US so in the interim I tried various Loctite solutions without success but finally had a win with Loctite 680 and used Loctite Primer. This is the serious green stuff and that stayed in place for about 6,000miles before getting loose.
At that point the Buell demise arrived and I grabbed a run-out '09 and parked the '06 to have a spare frame, forks etc. and that problem is gathering dust in the shed.
I have seen another similar incident here with a Buell rear wheel drive side bearing where a machine shop bored the bearing pocket oversize and sleeved that with a pressed-in sleeve but I don't know how that lasted in service as I have lost touch with most of the old Buell crowd here.
I was using my bike as my daily driver for a 50-mile round trip at commuter pace. As a result I was quite prepared to risk the Loctite approach because I wasn't going to have a problem a zillion miles from home.
It was a definite workable 'get around it for the moment' fix but I would be looking for a 3-bearing wheel or ask a reputable machine shop for their opinion. Unless you can be sure of its history a second hand 2-bearing wheel could be little better than what you have.
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Smorris
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 11:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

locktite is only temporary fix. wheel should be heated and bearings put in freezer . 3 bearing wheel is only solution
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Teeps
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 11:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Dan_m,
If you have the $$$, get the 2010 rear wheel assembly.
Order it from Lance at St. Paul Harley-Davidson and have the bearings, spacer and seals installed by them.

If this was my wheel and I didn't have $$$ for a 2010 wheel.
I would get a new spacer, then mount new bearings using a "Stud & Bearing" mount compound.
https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=mopar +stud+and+bearing+mount+adhesive&sourceid=opera&ie =UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#q=stud+and+bearing+mount+adhesive

I would use the strongest compound available.
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Mark_weiss
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 07:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I cannot remember the exact name at the moment, but there is a product that may be able to fix the wheel. Basically, it is a cylinderical hard steel shim with a rolled edge. The shim is pressed into place and the edge snaps off. You end up with a resized bearing bore. While I have not used this reclamation method on a Buell wheel, I have used them on other hard-to-replace hubs.

If the bearing is loose enough to press out at finger strenghthlocking compounds will not work for very long.
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Etennuly
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 10:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What about a little TIG welding and machining? I would rather do that than a sleeve.
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Dan_m
Posted on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 02:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks for replies!
The '10 rear wheel is indeed the perfect fix, but this is something to consider in this winter. For now i need to find best solution to repair this wheel and ride this bike. I don't know what happened with Njloco's reply, but it seems that someone on the other forum experienced the exact same problem with the rear wheel bearing so i am tempted to try first his solution to this problem which is: " roughen up the surface real good, then use a spray cleaner that leaves no residual residue on the surface, heat it up a bit with a butane torch, let it cool, clean out again, put some shoe polish on the bearing, get some Belzona epoxy, mix according to directions, press onto roughened up bearing surface, install bearing with shoe polish on it, wipe off excess epoxy, let it set and fully cure, go ride". I will keep update here if i will have success with this approach.
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Natexlh1000
Posted on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 11:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Shoe polish?
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Hughlysses
Posted on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 01:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

^ To prevent the epoxy from bonding to the bearing outer race.
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Court
Posted on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 01:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Damn . . . and I thought you were just wanting to look daaaaaaaaamn good !
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Njloco
Posted on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 02:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That also ^^^^^^^^^^^ !
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Natexlh1000
Posted on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 04:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I thought you were alluding to the old joke differentiating between excrement and shinola.
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Etennuly
Posted on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 10:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Epoxy sounds like it is worth a try. I would do it under these circumstances.
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Tootal
Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2017 - 12:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Installing the wheel and axle before the epoxy hardens will keep it square in the bore.
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Mark_weiss
Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2017 - 01:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Most epoxies are pretty compressible. While this solution could indeed create a short-term zero-clearance fit, the wheel bearing should actually be held much more rigidly than zero clearance.
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Hughlysses
Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2017 - 03:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That's a good point about the epoxy. The wheel is made to have an interference fit; I.E.- the OD of the bearing is LARGER than the ID of the bearing recess in the wheel. You can't get anything like that by using epoxy. The only way to restore an interference fit is with a piece of shim material, bore the wheel out and press in a sleeve, or weld it up and reborn it.
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Njloco
Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2017 - 04:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well, while a perfect fit is not an interference fit, it has worked on heavy Caterpillar equipment, army tanks, navy ships, the big huge quarry trucks,etc.
You could also always pop the bearing out, add a little bit of epoxy and the have it cut down on a lathe.

I would and will do this repair in a heart beat !

I could tell you more but don't know if it's still classified, sorry.
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Ourdee
Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2017 - 04:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My first wheel went south this way. I gave it to Matt Loose and he repaired it. May be worth contacting him for his procedure.
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Sagehawk
Posted on Monday, June 12, 2017 - 09:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Have been trying to find the steel shims mentioned earlier in thread. they are call a tolerance ring. McMaster Carr has them for various bearing sizes. a ring for the 6203 bearing i believe is what you would want part number in their online catolog is 2896K16. sold each for 3.91 dollars apiece. If your going to try one, buy ring and take wheel and ring to machine shop of your choice as wheel will have to be bored out a small amount for room for ring. Dimensions are given in catolog or ring should have dimensions on a sheet included with ring.
I have seen these used in dickow mag drive pumps but not on ball bearings. shaft was grooved for ring all ready. ring is split allready. slide into groove on shaft and then press a solid silicon carbide sleeve( bearing ) onto ring/shaft. bearing arrangement was silicon carbide against silicon carbide. Never saw failures there unless pump was run dry or cavitated to death. rpm was always 3600 and going 24/7 in that application. they seem to work well as silicon carbide is so brittle you couldnt really press it into position with out breaking bearing . anyway, long winded. If you are going to try one and make it to winter let us know how it all works out and give feedback on these tolerance rings.
also let me know if i used wrong bearing number. i thought 6203 for rear and 6202 for front. take care!
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Dan_m
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 03:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sagehawk, thanks for your help. Up to 2010 rear wheel bearings are 6006.2RS. Unfortunately i do not see listed on McMaster Carr website any shim ring for this bearing. Plus, i live outside US so i don't think this is the best solution for me. Thanks anyway!
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