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Buell Forum » Big, Bad & Dirty (Buell XB12X Ulysses Adventure Board) » Interesting new sound from the Uly - can anyone identify? « Previous Next »

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Falloutnl
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2017 - 05:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You really hear it first around 44 seconds and then more clearly from 50 seconds and onward.

https://youtu.be/8A6cLtFGTY0

It's the slight whining noise you hear. Not entirely sure where it's coming from or whether it's anything serious at all, but maybe someone here can recognize it.
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Hugie03flhr
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2017 - 10:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It sounds like your tensioner pulley bearings when you let off the gas but it also could be the primary chain out of adjustment, oil or just wear on the primary shoe.
It's tough going by a video.
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Falloutnl
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2017 - 10:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It's tough going by a video.

Definitely, appreciate your input though.

I'll go for another ride and let it coast with the clutch in for a bit, see if I can still hear it then. Would make it more likely that it's the pulley bearings.

(Message edited by falloutnl on June 07, 2017)
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Natexlh1000
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2017 - 11:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If you get it up to speed, pull in clutch and kill the engine, you should be able to hear it better.

If you can't hear it at all, then it's not the primary or engine.
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Etennuly
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2017 - 11:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I would check the front wheel bearings to. Does it do it the same every time out?
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Falloutnl
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 04:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I would check the front wheel bearings to. Does it do it the same every time out?

Yes it does. (Though it's not the front wheel bearings as evidenced by the video below.)

We've done some more research today.

- Switched out the pulley from the tensioner: no difference

- Switched to a different rear wheel: no difference

- Brought the engine up to speed without the belt fitted: that did make a difference, no sound, but also no load on the front pulley and axle

Since the sound with both wheels is exactly the same, a problem with (wheel) bearings seems unlikely - even though the sound is gone when the wheel and belt are not connected. Could be explained by the lack of load on the front pulley and that the bearings there are sadly at fault.

This is the video we made of the sound:

https://youtu.be/slp1LldDbr4

(Brought engine and gearbox up to speed - clutch in - kill engine)


(Message edited by falloutnl on June 08, 2017)
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Etennuly
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 09:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Oh man! That sounds awful!

Hard to see a bearing that runs in oil sounding that bad. Have you pulled the primary oil plug to look for metal on the plug magnet?
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Arry
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 09:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Did you try rotating the rear wheel (with belt on), with the engine not running and in neutral?
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Etennuly
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 09:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I would think that with the belt off you would be able to feel slop in that primary out put shaft given that much noise.

Can you feel vibration when the noise is present?

Perhaps something got loose in there and is rubbing the clutch basket etc. ??
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Gmaple
Posted on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 12:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My gut is a clutch noise of some sort
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Falloutnl
Posted on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 03:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Oh man! That sounds awful!

Haha, yes it hurts to see my baby like this.

Did you try rotating the rear wheel (with belt on), with the engine not running and in neutral?

Yeah, though it's not possible to get enough momentum to get the same sound from it.

Can you feel vibration when the noise is present?

Not really, no.

I would think that with the belt off you would be able to feel slop in that primary out put shaft given that much noise.

And this isn't the case either, no play at all. Give me some hope I guess.

Perhaps something got loose in there and is rubbing the clutch basket etc. ??

My gut is a clutch noise of some sort


Yes, this is the next thing we'll have to check before calling its time of death.
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Etennuly
Posted on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 05:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Drained the primary oil yet?
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Etennuly
Posted on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 05:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

There is a whole lotta stuff mounted right in front of that pulley. Any chance something got behind the pulley to rub it?
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Falloutnl
Posted on Sunday, June 11, 2017 - 03:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Drained the primary oil yet?

Not yet, next weekend I think.

Was out riding this weekend, took the X1. Was a 700 mile trip. The Ulysses was sorely missed :P.

There is a whole lotta stuff mounted right in front of that pulley. Any chance something got behind the pulley to rub it?

As in dirt or something larger?
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Etennuly
Posted on Sunday, June 11, 2017 - 06:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I was thinking wire plug, stone/pebble. Something like that.
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Falloutnl
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 10:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Right thanks, I'll check.

The next session (where we'll further investigate the front pulley and the clutch) is planned for this Friday.

I'll report back then!
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Mark_weiss
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 04:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You're certain that it's not belt noise?
It seems awfully loud for a belt, but it does seem to be that same sort of whine.
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Ourdee
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 08:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Check the idler pulley bearing and wheel.
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Falloutnl
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - 07:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You're certain that it's not belt noise?
It seems awfully loud for a belt, but it does seem to be that same sort of whine.


Not entirely certain, cause the noise was gone when the belt was off. Could be due to a lack of load on the front pulley, but it's something we'll have to investigate. Perhaps with another belt if we can scrounge it up.

Check the idler pulley bearing and wheel.

We did try another pulley wheel and rear wheel, no difference.

Though the other rear wheel is so banged up that it might make as much noise. However, feels unlikely that it would make the exact same sound.
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Mark_weiss
Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2017 - 04:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You may be able to listen to the output shaft bearing by using a makeshift stethescope. You will need a stout screwdriver, at least 12" long. Place the blade end of the screwdriver against the case, as close to the output shaft as is manageable. Press the handle end firmly against your ear. The idea is to transfer sound vibrations from the case to your ear.

With the rear wheel raised, rotate the wheel and listen to the bearing. You will probably get a bit of belt noise but what you are listening for is the sound of the bearing. It will make a clear 'turning' noise, but should be more of a shooosh noise, kind of like ice skates, rather than a bowling ball crossing tiles sound.

You could also try with the belt removed and note the difference.
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Hugie03flhr
Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2017 - 07:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Wow, that really howls but it sounds more like the belt is hitting something. If it was a trans bearing, it would have changed pitch from being under load to free wheeling. I would start with taking off some of the belt guards and spin the tire by hand. That thing howled right up until the wheel stopped. Whatever it is, I don't think it's major. I think the valve tap would annoy me more LoL
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Falloutnl
Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2017 - 06:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Alright, we did some more investigating Friday. We ran the bike with belt, pulley and rear wheel, but without all the belt guard plastics. That didn't make a difference either.

We have to fashion some kind of pulley locking tool in order to remove the front pulley to get at the bearing, so that will have to wait till the next session.

Did manage to inspect the clutch side, but everything seems to be in order there. No debris on the drain plug, nothing in the primary oil, no loose bits, no play in the bearings on that side and the clutch springs were still in one piece.

One thing I did notice, when running the bike on the stand, is that the noise either starts, or is far more noticeable, when you shift up to the last three gears -> so you hear it in third, fourth and fifth gear. This either means the engine noise is so loud in first and second gear that you can't hear the sound you're listening for - OR - the problem arises when you shift up to those last three gears, which would mean the problem is somewhere in the transmission.

Some pictures, cause why not:









Next step is probably to find a locking tool for the pulley and inspect that side. If that doesn't show anything either, we're going to split the cases I think.
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2_spuds
Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2017 - 10:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I had a similar sound on an older sportster. Someone had installed the wrong spacer behind the drive sprocket
( too short ) and made up the difference with a much smaller diameter thick washer. I don't remember feeling any play on the sprocket , but found the problem when I pulled things apart. The main shaft and sprocket were galled from the sprocket not having full support of the proper spacer behind it.
Mine was a trap door trans so replacing the main shaft was easy. Good luck finding your problem.
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Hughlysses
Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2017 - 10:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

A piece of an old drive belt screwed to a length of wood can be used for a locking tool.

The nut is left-hand threaded too.
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Brother_in_buells
Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2017 - 03:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hold the front pulley firmly with one hand and use a air impact wrench to undo the nut.

No need for a locking tool needed for removing
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Brother_in_buells
Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2017 - 04:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Are all three rivets still in place in the clutch basket?

http://www.ukbeg.com/forum/download/file.php?id=10 243&t=1


Don't know if this is your problem ,but it can make a hell of a noise when revits come loose.

http://www.xr1200ownersgroup.com/site/showthread.p hp?t=14670
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Falloutnl
Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 05:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Apologies for the late reply. Hell of a week with work stuff.

I think the rivets were still in place.

Will look for an impact wrench (or an old drive belt), thanks for the tip!

Though yeah, starting to look like we're splitting cases :'(

Just 22k kilometers on that thing, iF the ODO is accurate, though the bike doesn't look like it's done more than that.

Hard to believe it's actually the output shaft or the transmission.
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Brother_in_buells
Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 07:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Don't know how your contact with twinmotorcycles is ,but before opening the cases maybe they could have a listening at it!?
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Falloutnl
Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 07:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yeah, I know them pretty well. Couldn't hurt to ask. Would be good to at least have some degree of certainty that it's necessary to go that far.
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Rdkingryder
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2017 - 09:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think someone used an old brass door hinge to lock to primary to loosen the nut.
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Electraglider_1997
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2017 - 12:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I wish I'd of seen this earlier. It is just the mating call of the wild ULY.
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D_adams
Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2017 - 10:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.buellxb.com/forum/showthread.php?49513- swapping-output-shaft-5th-gear-bearing&p=548319&vi ewfull=1#post548319

This has got to be one of the better write-ups I've run across for replacing the output shaft bearing without splitting the cases. Really wish I'd found it before I tore mine completely apart a few years ago.
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Griffmeister
Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 02:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That was very nicely done. That pulley holder is a lot simpler than the one that I made. A lot of well made special tools, what surprised me was all the neat tools carefully machined then the bearing pullers looked like they were hand ground. They worked, that's what counts. Wish I could have done something so simple but I had to split my cases for a bad tranny. Oh well.
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Tootal
Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 09:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think it's your tranny output bearing. The reason it doesn't make noise in the lower gears is because it takes more rpm to get it to sing. The bearing is brinelled and it's basically the balls running over potholes. As the rpm increases so does the sound. You notice that it's rear wheel rpm related and not engine rpm related.
We overhauled a centrifuge that had bearings 14" in diameter. The new bearings had been sitting in a cabinet for years with the constant vibration of the surrounding equipment. After the overhaul was over we fired it up. Take that sound from your video and multiply it by 100!! You could not stand to be inside that building from all the noise.
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