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Buell Forum » Big, Bad & Dirty (Buell XB12X Ulysses Adventure Board) » Archive through April 14, 2017 » Changing Fan Logic with TunerPro « Previous Next »

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Dtaylor
Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 - 06:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've been meaning to change my EBR ECM to the old fan logic on the edges of the riding season, as the temps can be pretty cool here in the early spring and late autumn.

I suspect that it is as simple as setting the "Enable Speed Based Thresholds" flag to zero, but I'm hoping someone in the know can confirm that.

I'm new to TunerPro and more than a little nervous about bricking my ECM!



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Dtaylor
Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 - 08:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Digging a little deeper, I Googled some more and I had a look at my stock ECM (BUEZD) and compared values. I'm guessing I should change the Key Off Fan Parameters to match the old logic.

New Fan Logic:


Old Fan Logic:


I'm curious about the associated tables, and how those temps tie in with the voltages -- particularly the Key Off Off/Key Off On tables. Froggy?



(Message edited by dtaylor on March 21, 2017)
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Hugie03flhr
Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 05:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I need to learn this stuff to but I would keep the fan on with the key off system . Oil coking up on the rear cylinder exhaust valve will cause problems. I've seen what it does to turbos.
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Sagehawk
Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 10:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

what is your goal on the temp settings for the different seasons? i'm on gulf coast and its getting warmer year by year. I've left key off settings stock but I've lowered key on setting to 195 with original key on lower setting alone. I've data logged and temp has crept to 208 or so and then drifted back to 195 to 200 for 40 minute ride. the question becomes not which protocol to use just because but what heat temp do you want or what does your individual bike do? I have asked several folks on what the head temp range should be for a normal 07 12x. Every bike is different. original key on temp was 220 but after cooking rocker box gaskets and a fan I thought perhaps using the fan not as a emergency measure but like all fans, use as a normal operating parameter to keep temps at what I want.
I'm glad you brought this up as I am trying to learn tunerpro rt and to me , is not so user friendly.
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Froggy
Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2017 - 01:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'll dig up my settings. What is your end goal? I modified mine work like the 2010 bikes while running (almost no fan below 15mph), but when turning the key off it kicks on for a few minutes like the older programming.
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Dtaylor
Posted on Friday, March 24, 2017 - 06:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My bike is a 2008, and Im currently running an EBR ECM (BUE2D) with the new fan logic, big right side scoop and comfort kit. My goal is to quickly reach and maintain an optimal operating temperature during the cooler weather.

The edges of my riding season March and November are typically 15C or lower, and Im more likely to take shorter rides. Even with a rag stuffed in the oil cooler scoop, the oil temps stay pretty low and prone to water condensation.

I havent logged any head temp data, but I did notice that during cooler weather the original ECM (Key off fan temps: 170C on - 150C off), never ran after short rides (30 mins) and very briefly ran after longer, sustained speed rides.

Im thinking for starters, Ill run simply the old fan logic when its quite cool out. Once it warms up, Ill try what Froggys mentioned in another thread and use the speed-based fan logic but bump the key-off numbers lower to get the fan running on shutdown again.

I'd love to hear what others' experience have been in tweaking the fan logic for their local conditions.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Friday, March 24, 2017 - 09:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If your fan isn't coming on...you aren't getting the engine warm enough to need it. Not getting the engine warm enough is, at that point, not a function of fan operation but of simple engine use - you have to run it to get it hot. Short rides simply won't heat it up. Period. It's not like an automotive thermostat, where you can pick a higher temperature and the effect is a corked system, causing the temps to rise faster until the thermostat opens. Air cooled engines warm up when they warm up. Period.

If you want the fan to run "more" in cooler weather...why?? If the engine isn't getting hot to begin with, there's no need to run the fan longer to cool off what's already a not-warm engine.

Like Froggy said - what's your end goal? I run the new fan logic in my 06, hot weather or cold. I figure it's going to be the latest evolution of the programming process, and haven't had any heat issues with my bike. No pinging, no cylinder deactivation, no loss of power. The sound of the fan doesn't bother me one bit and I don't have voltage issues. So again, what's your end goal?
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Dtaylor
Posted on Friday, March 24, 2017 - 11:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sorry Joe, I wasn't terribly clear.

I do want the fan to run less when ambient temperatures are between freezing and 15 degrees C. I plan to do that by reverting to the old fan logic.

In the summer, I'll switch back to the new speed-based logic, with a tweak to encourage the key-off cooling on shutdown.


Compared to a fully open-air engine, the XB gives a modicum of control over the airflow, so I'm inclined to fiddle with that when I know the engine doesn't need a full arctic blast. ; )

Maybe it's a wistful yearning for my aircooled VW days -- they had an air thermostat that would, depending on the year, choke the airflow or divert it, in addition to an oil thermostat.

(Message edited by dtaylor on March 24, 2017)
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Desert_bird
Posted on Friday, March 24, 2017 - 04:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Way back when I bought a Race ecm from Buell I put in a special request for them to give me the updated race ecm fueling flash, but to retain the original (pre-full time on) fan logic. The fan logic they would have provided was the most recent one which runs the fan virtually constantly. Although I live at elevation and in the hot SW, most of my time is spent touring or at speed on highways. I never found the heat on my '08 XB to be that big of a deal, even when in traffic. I just put my leg out when I hit the highway. Having the fan only come on when the temperature exceeded the original limit kept the safety mechanism of additional cooling in place but only when absolutely needed and without all the additional fuss. I think that the fan came on no more than a dozen times, when I was really flogging it or just couldn't get out of slow moving traffic. My goals were longer fan life, less noise, lower reasonable overall amperage needs. I have never had a problem with that solution.

But then again, I am of the mind that in all but the extreme situations, the fan on the XB is somewhat of an accessory. I don't see serious cocking or oil breakdown post-shut down as being a big issue. The turbo's in all three of my Saab's will regularly run red-hot when I am on the throttle, and are therefore both water and oil cooled. But the top end of a XB motor where the oil flows will rarely if ever run as hot as a turbo. And the airflow when moving has always seemed adequate to em. But I am also an air head aficionado, have had my share of air-cooled VW's, and am a firm adherent to the philosophy that less-is-more (including in the area of mechanical tolerances, I suppose).

Unfortunately, the engineers changed their policy on such customized solutions. When recently getting an updated fueling map for my 1125R Race ECM from EBR, I asked them to raise the temperature for the fan logic by just a few degrees and for the same reasons: In the trade off on the 1125R's water cooled motor I sought better fuel economy, less fan noise, fewer replacement fans and less amperage needs over the slightly increased power output achieved by running the motor just 10 degrees cooler under the original (almost full time on) factory fan logic. They told me to get lost. Go figure. Guess EBR under Liquid Assets just didn't have time for the neurotic customer!

DB

(Message edited by Desert_bird on March 24, 2017)
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