| Author | Message | ||
     Ratbuell |
Pulled into the driveway tonight after work, heard a "tink-tink" rattle from the front of the engine. Thought "damn, snapped another muffler strap". I wish. Front header flange studs snapped; noise was the flange pinging around the header pipe with nothing to hold it. 34k miles. Not too bad I guess...but we'll see how badly they fight the drill bit. Grrrr. | ||
| Etennuly |
See if you can find left twist drill bits. Start small go easy. Make sure to center punch start straight, drill straight. Last one i did unscrewed as soon as the bit cut through the end of the stud. Made for a happy hole! Good luck! | ||
| Tootal |
If there is anything still sticking out use a tube with the inside diameter the same as the outside diameter of the stud. Use the same size drill as the stud diameter and start drilling until you get a nice center point. Then use a smaller bit to finish drilling it out. Left handed bits work sometimes as Vern said. I try to take it to the tap drill size if I know I'm centered. It turns the threads into a spring and as you turn it out it collapses. Good Luck! | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
I'm wondering what the root cause of these studs snapping is. Maybe forcing the muffler up too high or too low on the header pipe and then tightening. That would be a constant strain against the studs coupled with the throb of the engine. Fixing it is hard enough but having it happen more than once would really be a pain. I haven't been cursed yet with that problem but have had to reverse drill out a hardened bolt when one of the kickstand bolts sheared off. Good luck to you and may it be fixed easily. | ||
| Teeps |
I'd look into obtaining a JIMS Exhaust Stud Drill Plate. | ||
| Anfear |
Just saw the drill plate on eBay for $40 new from a different manufacturer. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I'm hoping to drill and replace without even pulling the header off. Hoping. I'll use the flange as a guide. Center punch, small bit, larger bit, easy-out bit, and some luck...here's hoping! | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Easy-outs are the devil! I have never NEVER used one successfully. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I tried welding up a guide using an old flange. It wasn't a net gain over just doing it carefully by hand. A tungsten carbide dremel bit is very useful to either grind out a broken tap or easy out, or just to recenter a hole, or to generally carve things out when it is going wrong. You will need about 3 of them to get through a long tap. I have the plate guide from ebay. It looks like it will work fine, I haven't tried it. A reputable engine builder told me the Jims tool does a perfect job. I've done it twice without the tool, the second went better then the first. Even the first, which was not lined up well and ended up being a new tapped hole that was half aluminum head and half old stud by the time it got to the bottom of the stud hole, held up fine for the life of the bike. These are only 15 inch pound torque bolts. And I have never heard of a stud pull out, I think they just get loose then shear. | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
If there's anything sticking out just find a nut that will slide over then weld the inside of the nut, let cool for a few seconds only and try backing it out while its still hot. If it doesn't seem like its going to back out don't force the nut but start squirting Kroil on the stud while its still hot. Keep doing this intermittently as it cools. The Kroil will draw up in the threads as it is cooling. Introducing some high frequencies will help a lot too, if you have a pneumatic engraving tool or electric, lay that on it a few times while going through this process. That will help break the lock between the stud and the head. I realize this is using tools you may not have but I have had a lot of luck with this method, so if you can get your hands on this stuf you might too. Drilling a stud is a bit iffy. That stud is going to be harder then a wedding prick. I'd drill as a last resort. The process of welding the nut on may soften up the stud a little so I would do the former first then the latter. Best of luck. (Message edited by figorvonbuellingham on June 30, 2016) | ||
| Sagehawk |
Not to twist this thread ever so slightly , but is there only one style gasket for the header/ head connection? I just went with what mancuso's gave me at motor roll time several years ago. Can that gasket crush more as aging thereby loosening the flange nuts? Gaskets looked to be same as 96 xl, 96 flhr, and now xb12x header or pipe flanges. Made a bolt up with washers, cut in a lathe to match angle of gasket for a tool. Match up gasket at port, center tool, and nail it once with a good deadblow hammer. Seems to seat gasket firmly every time. Pipes seem to be firmly seated in gasket/head when removed the next time. Is there a better gasket available and better stud material available? | ||
| Reepicheep |
FWIW, the first time I lost one it was because I failed to follow the torque instructions, and the second time I lost one was because a different part of the exhaust hanger system had come apart. | ||
| Etennuly |
I'm hating on an easy out in a small head stud like these too. That sucks and can ruin an important hole if it breaks(like the last one I did with an easy out). I saved the hole but, spent a lot of time with a tiny dremel on that one! Highly recommend the Left hand drill bits. Header on the bike.....sounds like something I would try if it were mine.  BUT with it being a problematic clamp breaker, and now a stud, I might want to disassemble it to see if I could find a cause, or at least get another set on the pipe alignment as it goes back together. | ||
| Ratbuell |
34k miles and I've broken one exhaust strap. It's had the factory muffler. Then I installed and tried a drummer for a while. Then back to stock. Then I got a stock muffler that has been heat-coated. So I've had the muffler on and off what...at least 4 times over the years and this is the first stud breakage on top of one strap (that I probably shouldn't have reused in the first place). I think it's just getting old. Like the loose nut behind the handlebars. | ||
| Big_island_rider |
Ratbuell, You mean the one that connects the handlebars to the seat? We call that a PEBSAH. Problem Exists Between Seat And Handlebars  | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Ratbuell, One strap isn't all that bad in the scheme of things. I've reused my original straps time and again without a problem and I've got about 52K miles on my 06. When tightening I wait until I begin to feel resistance and then 3/4 turn more and that is all. I just figure that the last thing I want to do is stretch the strap at all. The straps are strong enough that the weight of the muffler is not going to stress or stretch them, only tightening them past tight will do that. That is what I think at least. So far that has worked well on my bike and my son's 07. | ||
| Teeps |
Actually over torquing the strap will result in a crushed muffler. Don't ask me how I know... | ||
| Ratbuell |
Well, I got 'em drilled out. Now to get replacement studs, tap the holes, and install... | ||
| Ratbuell |
So I'm considering alternatives to stock. Material upgrades. Is stainless a bad idea? Heat, dissimilar metals and corrosion? | ||
| Tootal |
Stainless is actually very soft. I'm afraid the vibration and heat will cause it to stretch, work harden and snap. The stock studs are probably still the best bet. I don't know what grade they are but I would hope they are a grade 5 stud. If you can source studs with a grade 5 designation, that's what I would use. Also B7 rated studs should work. They are used on steam pipe flanges and seem to handle vibration well. | ||
| Teeps |
I don't think there is a problem with the Buell fasteners. However, if you're not inclined to use OEM fasteners. Maybe ARP makes a suitable stud for this application. | ||
| Etennuly |
Go too hard beyond stock could be asking for moving the "easy to fix" weak point to a worse problem if it were to have a failure again. I think it is worth running the stock replacements for the sake of potentially saving the head. | ||
| Big_island_rider |
Etennuly, That is an excellent point. Knowing where the weak point in any system is easier to fix than trying to solve the problem and moving it to an unknown location. Especially if the original fix is relatively inexpensive. | ||
| Ratbuell |
well I went stock. Easy to get, and the points above are all valid. And with no head-and-shoulders "better option"...stock lasted this long! Antisieze on the studs-to-head threads. Star washer under the nuts. Marking paint on both for a quick "spin-check" after rides...seems to be holding fine. Next project...new oil cooler and lines. Tired of a wet left boot. |
