| Author | Message | ||
     Crempel |
Dead horse, I know, but....I am tired of the pulsing. I have twice replaced my front rotor with another stock one, so not again. I have tried Lyndall pads and stock pads, doesn't matter. I have removed the rotor and cleaned the hell out of it. Brake cleaner, sanding, but nothing lasts really any time at all. I am not currently among the crowd that thinks its the front brake holding at a stop that does this. I could be wrong, but I've had a lot of bikes and never once had this trouble. If this were happening wouldn't the laws of randomness (aren't there some of those?) work in such a way that the rotor would stop at a different spot every time and it would even out across the entire surface? Has anyone tried the EBC or Braking rotors? I am also not interested in spending more than the value of the bike to get the 8 piston calipers, the appropriate master cylinder, right lines etc to fix what should be a simple problem. This is starting to sound a lot like whining. | ||
| Reepicheep |
EBR rotor with EBR mounting hardware made a huge improvement for me. I didn't know EBC made a ZTL or ZTL2 rotor... | ||
| Froggy |
Aftermarket rotors are also susceptible to pulsing, as is the ZTL2 setup. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I went with the older EBR 6mm rotor (1mm thicker than OEM), EBR mounting hardware, and EBC pads. Haven't had a problem since. IIRC, that was about 35k miles ago. | ||
| Airdale |
I kind of side with Hughlysses and Love my EBC pads front & rear. A suggestion have you tried doing several high speed runs and panic stops to heat up the rotor and clean the build off, vs disassembly and cleaning method. | ||
| Crempel |
Can the EBR rotor be found anywhere anymore? | ||
| Crempel |
Can the EBR rotor be found anywhere anymore? | ||
| Etennuly |
I replaced mine with a Buell 5mm rotor and installation kit. Cured mine completely, has been so good I literally forgot that it pulsed. My front brake was terrible to the point of unusable the first year and a half of ownership. It was fun watching a mechanic at HD nearly wreck it test driving it in their parking lot, only to get off and say it was "normal". If I remember right Buell came out with the aftermarket/upgrade/replacement about the time they started making the 1125s. I still run Lyndall Gold pads.....zzzzzzzzzz! | ||
| Phelan |
Hmm, I haven't had any pulsing on my Ulysses with stock rotor and hardware. I'm running cheap ceramic brake pads from Sixity. | ||
| Ourdee |
Phelen beat me to it. I'm running Sixity ceramics also. I'm one of the build up from holding hot front brake at stops people. I cleaned mine when running EBC pads by hard braking from 70 mph+ multiple times while feathering off the front brake prior to coming to a stop. Then always feathering off the front prior to stopping. I hold the bike at stops with the rear brake only. | ||
| Tootal |
I'm with Hugh. 6mm rotor and EBC pads. It started to pulse just a little and I did the high speed panic stop routine and it quit. So when I commute I take the exit ramp at speed and wait until the last second and grab a handful. Never had another problem. | ||
| Crempel |
I'd love to have the 6 mm rotor but where?!??!!!?! | ||
| Hughlysses |
I'd love to have the 6 mm rotor but where?!??!!!?! Unless you can find a used one someplace, I don't have a clue. EBR made them for only a year or so after the closure of Buell. The newer EBR race rotors may work just as well or better; I just have experience with this version. | ||
| Etennuly |
Hugh, was it 'EBR' at the time or was it 'Buell Racing' under the HD banner back then? Does Al at American Sport Bike still have them? I believe that is where I got mine. But it has been a while. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Vern- I think it was EBR in the VERY early days (2010) or so before even the 1190RS was being produced. All they were selling were "race" parts. | ||
| Etennuly |
I believe I replaced my rotor in 2007 or early 2008. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Ditto Sixity ceramics. Seem the same as the Lyndalls and neither have the eyeball popping initial bite as the stockers did. My pulsing went away when I went to the Lyndalls many years ago and has not returned. Started using the Sixity's due to economic issues, 102K now and still no pulsing, probably will need a new rotor though in 20-30 more K. Always when changing pads do a thorough job and clean the caliper well, make sure the pistons aren't sticking. Do your fluid changes on schedule too. | ||
| Teeps |
No pulsing, on my '06 Ulysses, since installing the EBR rotor mount kit and D2Moto front pads. I, mainly credit the rotor mount kit. Looks like this: http://ebutik.nccr.se/shop/4830/art30/h1628/254616 28-origpic-265c40.jpg | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Charles, I had the same problem with my stock rotor, I replaced it with the EBR and mounting kit. Problem went away.. for a while.. then returned but not as bad. I needed new pads as I had a fork leak that messed up the current pads. While talking to Al at American Sport Bike, I settled on another set of Lyndalls. But, I really hammered them after I installed them. I did multiple hard stops from 50 MPH or so and did the same as Ordee mentioned above. Did it hard enough that they stunk. Worked like a charm. No more pulsing. The cause is pad deposition. When you come to a stop and keep pressure on the brake there is a transfer of material from the hot brake pad to the now hot rotor. This uber thin layer has a different friction coefficient than the rest of the rotor. The high speed stops scrub off this layer and get you back to base metal. You feel the pulsing in the entire bike but not the brake lever, that's how you know it's not a warped rotor. Give the hard stop treatment a try, I think you'll feel a difference. Like was mentioned above, back off the front brake as you come to a stop and use the rear brake to hold position at a stop. Works for me! Brad | ||
| Tootal |
My theory is that the rotor is so much larger in diameter that the surface feet our pads see is like a normal bike at a much higher speed. In other words, when we stop from 60 mph it's like a regular bike stopping at 80 mph. I didn't do the math, that's just an example. I think the pad manufactures are probably using the same material they use on everybody else's pads and they aren't designed for such surface speeds so they get a lot hotter than they normally would. That larger diameter gives us greater leverage to stop the wheel at the cost of more surface speed and heat. Has anybody tried a racing pad designed for more heat? Might be dangerous the first time you use the brakes though as they need some heat to start working well. | ||
| Crempel |
I'll give it a shot. Sounds like the cheapest "fix" too which is always good. Thx. Here in NC it never stops raining apparently, 10 straight days, so as soon as it dries out I'll give it a try. | ||
| Ourdee |
Look for smooth clean pavement and NO (did I say NO) traffic. I work up to a set of hard stops like learning a corner. Please, no traffic. | ||
| Crempel |
Interesting theory on the diameter Tootal. The math works out to about 15% more distance that the larger rotor has to travel per wheel revolution. Rotor diameter is 375 mm for Buell vs 320 mm for average other motorcycle. I guess this means a 15% increase in speed, which will produce more heat. A "normal" motorcycle will have enormous advantage in heat dissipation/absorption since it has 2 rotors, whose total mass adds up to far more that the single on the Buell. So more heat and less mass adds up to pad material sticking to rotors. Maybe now I'm convinced. Ironically, the "fix" is make it even hotter than usual. | ||
| Teeps |
Was pad pressure included in the calculations? The larger diameter (leverage) rotor would certainly need less pad pressure for a given stopping distance... | ||
| Ourdee |
Ironically, the "fix" is make it even hotter than usual. Simplest way to wipe off hot glue is to heat it back up. | ||
| Crempel |
I'm not sure I agree that the larger diameter rotor would require less pressure. If "normal" bikes had only one rotor, that would be true. However, since they generally have two, each caliper would only be responsible for half of the braking force. My thought is that less pressure for a dual disc system and greater heat absorbing mass, since there are 2 rotors, makes for a cooler running system. | ||
| Etennuly |
Don't forget to include direct force and leverage in your calculations, and rim weight. The braking force is all at the outside perimeter of the rim putting the braking forces directly on the tire not sending it up to the axle - to the hub - to the spokes - then to the outer rim. This is why the Buell rim is seven pounds lighter than the others. Spin a wheel and try to stop it near the hub and you have a lot of work to do, at the outer edge not so much. The same size pads at the outer perimeter have much less work to do to stop it from turning. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I resisted the first time, but I braking physics flame-wars are always the *best* physics flame wars...  So my 2cents... Only the following things really matter: 1) The mass being stopped 2) The initial velocity of the mass being stopped 3) The final velocity of the mass being stopped 4) The time between initial and final velocity 5) The mass of the sink that has to absorb the braking energy that is converted to heat 6) The cooling capability of the sink that absorbs that braking energy If they were the same total mass, then a two small diameter rotor setup should be the same heat as one large perimeter rotor. (Though I might concede some possible material differences that are related to relative velocity) What we are seeing might just be a reflection of the fact that a braking system with substantially reduced unsprung mass will have more challenges in terms of heat and heat dissipation. Duh.  | ||
| Etennuly |
So in your HO leverage has nothing to do with it? | ||
| Panhead_dan |
I had a brake pulse problem with my '03 9S. I cleaned the rotor real good and it stopped the pulsing. ALL it cost me was a few minutes with some BrakeClean and a rag. |
