| Author | Message | ||
     Pretzel_logic |
I have an 08 with EBR ECM. Doesn't seem to be ideal as programmed. I don't like fan noise, but the fan running at road append, but shutting off at very low speeds or stopped... That can't be what the engines needs most? I have the comfort kit installed. Dean in Tennessee | ||
| Froggy |
Because of the frame design, the rear cylinder does not have great airflow even at speed, which is why the fan kicks on to keep air moving. The bike runs cooler overall with the fan program like that, the older programming would wait till it got hot enough to kick in but would basically run non stop and even after the engine was turned off. | ||
| Pretzel_logic |
It is buried in there for sure... Would a larger right side scoop help any? Dean | ||
| Poppinsexz |
If you have the comfort kit it should have the large right side scoop. | ||
| Rcf2 |
Pretzel, mine is the same and I'm worried sometimes but the fact is his running better now with the EBR ECM fan logic... | ||
| Ourdee |
That can't be what the engines needs most? It works for the bike and is a compromise. Earlier cooling with less battery drain at shutdown so you have a better chance of restarting without a tender. Best way in my opinion. Watch out for that valium. It has a long half life. It will stay in your system a long time. | ||
| Buellmoose |
I'm a new Buell owner 2006 Ulyssas, been reading post like crazy. Has anyone tried installing a selector switch to toggle control between ECM and a direct ground for fan control? | ||
| Sagehawk |
What does the 08 up fan logic control? Is it that fan comes on after a preset speed? Shuts off below a preset speed? Or temperature? What actually is a good temp for rear head to be at anyhow? I'm having good luck on 07 cutting fan on temp to 195c from 220c. Fan off setting still original settings. I would have to look those up to state accurately. | ||
| Phelan |
If you set up TunerPro RT ane get it connected to your bike, you change the fan parameters as I did. My '06 did not have the later style programming with the early fan activation, so I changed the temperature at which it comes on to closer reflect the later programming. So now the fan comes on at 170*C and turns off at 150*. Since I have the smaller RSS and a built motor, I needed this. | ||
| Hughlysses |
What does the 08 up fan logic control? Is it that fan comes on after a preset speed? Shuts off below a preset speed? Or temperature? What actually is a good temp for rear head to be at anyhow? I'm having good luck on 07 cutting fan on temp to 195c from 220c. Fan off setting still original settings. I would have to look those up to state accurately. The initial 08 and 09 fan control programming was just like the 06 and 07's. The 2010 models introduced revised logic for the fan that considered both vehicle speed and cylinder heat temperature. This revised ECM program can be flashed to 08 and 09 XB's but not earlier models (different, less powerful ECM). IIRC, the fan kicks on at 15 MPH. It only turns on below that speed if the cylinder head gets fairly hot. I have no idea what that temp is. | ||
| Etennuly |
Has anyone tried installing a selector switch to toggle control between ECM and a direct ground for fan control? Yep. My '06 got to running in "run/skip/protect" mode every time I would go out in 70F + temperatures, trying to run 70 mph. Months of testing, experimenting, HD having it for the same, and I hot wired the fan on a trip one day. It worked. I have been running a toggle switch on the fan for several years now. I turn it on after warm up and it stays on the whole time I am riding. I shut it off as I shut the engine down. Been good for over 30,000 miles thus far. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
I ride an '08 with the original fan programming. Riding in the Phoenix metro area, it seemed a good idea to have the fan run after shut down. I did not want to give that up. My solution was to use ECMSpy to log my bike's running temperatures on my daily commute route. On the way home, July and August temperatures are generally over 105F and I thought that the engine's parameters under those conditions would give me good guidelines for modifying the 'on' and 'off' temperatures. After a few attempts (my laptop kept overheating) I found that at a steady 50 to 65mph the recorded temperature never seemed to go much over 205C. Exiting the freeway, dropping to surface streets, the temperature would shoot up to the 230C range. After a little playing around, I settled on 210C as the 'on' temperature and 190C for 'off'. At this setting, the fan would come on as I reached the end of the exit ramp and would stay on for the additional mile or so to get to my home. After shut down, the fan would shut off after a few minutes, not running up against the ECU's time or voltage limits. Now, with afternoon commute temperatures dropping in the 90F range, the fan usually comes on at the end of the exit ramp and shuts down about one half mile later. This seems about ideal. | ||
| Sagehawk |
Mark, that is spot on reporting. Thanks for numbers based on logging. My 07 comes on at 195 and off at something. Gonna have settings for winter and settings for summer. Btw, in your datalog, how long did your bike take to warmup? From startup to 160c , 170c or 180c? What temp does cold start enrichment go away on your 08? | ||
| Uly_man |
WOW all good work and information from these posts. The "fan logic" is speed controlled but all the previous functions are still there IE If the engine is very hot in "key off" mode the fan would still run. The comfort kit is part of the cooling system now, as it directs the hot air from the heads more efficiently, and needs to be fitted for best results. The nature of a air/ oil cooled bike needs to be understood and is nothing like a water cooled bike. A water cooled engine will run at a temp of around 96 C (water jacket) but a air/ oil one will be between about 160 - 220 C (oil temp). The way to look at it is that although the oil has its own cooler it is also cooled via the metal of the engine but this will not work as well if that metal is not being cooled as it should be as is the case with this bike. What the fan logic, or other system, does is provide a "forced" air flow comparable to that which the engine would have had in an "exposed" frame. Yes it is a compromise but it DOES WORK and it works very well. If I still had my 06 bike then I would defiantly be fitting some sort of extra fan control system. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
I'm not sure which abbreviation indicates cold start enrichment. So, not sure there. The EGO trace indicates that the O2 sensor becomes active at just under one minute, so I'd guess that cold start mapping ends about there. As for the heat up profile, here's what seemed typical over three days of riding: 41C at startup (pretty much ambient) 100C @ 2.5 min 130C @ 4.5 min 150C @ 5.5 min 160C @ 6.8 min 170C @ 9 min 180C @ 10 min 190C @ 11.5 min (entering freeway) 200C @ 12 min 205C @ 12.5 min 208C @ 13 min (stayed here, 206 to 208) 210C @ 17 min (freeway exit, gotta love HOV lanes) 220C @ 17.2 min (end of exit ramp, fan on 'til home) (Message edited by Mark_weiss on October 05, 2015) | ||
| Sagehawk |
this is a screen print of my spy ver 2 correction settings. temps listed and percent of enrichment is what I am using at this time. having good luck on gulf coast at sea level. some of the warm up issues that are prevalent with buells come with the amount of time to hit 160, 170, 180 c . almost all of us have fouled plugs at one time or another until we learned the curve for each machine.  | ||
| Uly_man |
There are a great deal of things going on inside the ECM to make the engine do what it needs to do. The only temperatures it knows are the oil and air intake not the temp of the engine metal. If you do not want a hot frame and seat then get air moving over it. The fan logic premps the heat soak to the metal of the engine which, I guess, someone at Buell must have worked out. For instance even if the engine is stone cold with the bike running and static the fan will come on at one minute. Also the even though the fan is speed controlled to come on at about 15 mph it will not until the engine is hot enough. THAT is the logic part of it. On my 10 bike the engine, frame, etc temp is much like a normal bike even after a good hard run. You can even put your hand close to the engine without a problem unlike my 06 bike which used to run like a furnace even AFTER the work I did on it. Folk go on about the 06/07 early crank fails but I would ask myself if trapping it between a very hot top end, a very hot exhaust can, on top of which is the oil filter and oil pump, combined with a dry sump and little means to cool any of it apart from the oil itself would be a good idea. | ||
| Uly_man |
Ok so the experiment for 06/ 07 bikes. Get a Scotch Lock or similar line tap connector.  Fit it to the black wire of the fan, add an in-line switch and wire it to the battery Earth. This will allow you to switch the fan on and off as desired while letting the ECM control the fan if needed IE You can not case any damage. Later on you could add a "in-line" variable temperature sensor as used in cars to automatically switch on the fan at the best temp which I would suggest to be around 170 C ish. You would need to experiment due to location of course. | ||
| Buellmoose |
It is my understanding that the ECM on 2006 Uly won't run the fan logic program. Can I use ECMSpy to change the fan temp setting on a 2006 ECM? | ||
| Phelan |
You can't use the free version of ECM spy to do so. You can use TunerPro RT, which is also free, but a bear to set up at first. Mike Cobb put up a YouTube instructional on how to do it though; I just watched it and followed along, pausing between steps so I could actually do the things in the video to set it up. | ||
| Sagehawk |
Curious as to the oil temp being known by the ecm. This is twice that has been mentioned and where is sensor for this function? Is this 08 up models? My 07 temp sensor is in center of rear head reading head temp. I've still wondered how this sensor is slow to heat up being on top of combustion chamber but quick to cool off. Of course fan running at that point. I've been using spy, ver. 2 for about a year and a half with good luck. I want to learn tunerpro to expand experience. Does free download of tunerpro rt datalog as well? Did it take you long to get on board with it, phelan? | ||
| Phelan |
TunerPro RT does datalog as well, but I don't have it on my tablet yet to do so. I've been using ECM Spy, as it's slightly easier to use on a 7" touch screen Windows 10 device. With the youtube video, and understanding that some of the files have moved since the video was made, but still readily available on the same sites mentioned in the vid, I was able to set it up in about 30 min (video is 20 min long). Really wasn't bad and is well worth the effort, even if only to change the fan logic. (Message edited by phelan on October 10, 2015) | ||
| Phelan |
BTW, there is no oil temp sensor anywhere, only head temp sensor. Displayed temp in ECM Spy is head temp. There is an oil pressure switch for the oil light, but that's it. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thank you Phelan! I slapped together an arduino based thermocouple temperature monitoring system, and designed it with two temperature sensors because, well, I could. One was going to be head temp. Oil temp would be another cool thing to monitor. | ||
| Sagehawk |
Reepicheep, you da man! Keep us clued in on progress of that device. Phelan: thanks for info, is it possible that datalogging comes with paid version of tunerpro? Wanting to find out all the facts so I wouldn't spend time looking for something not there. Kinda like a oil temp sensor. Or a sensor that doesn't read the temperature that a metal part would be at. Joe Friday always said , just the facts maam! | ||
| Phelan |
TunerPro RT is free in its entirety; it simply has a 10 second delay at startup asking you to register. | ||
| Uly_man |
Whoops? Head not oil - sorry Guys. At the end of the day getting that air moving is what you need, however you want to do it, is the trick. | ||
| Uly_dude |
I've seen a device you can buy from Al that replaces your oil fill plug. This thing has an oil temp sensor and a little temp gauge that will tell you how hot the oil is coming into the holding tank swing arm. | ||
| Crempel |
Hey Uly_man. Where can you tap into the black fan wire? Do I have to take the shock off and all that bs? I can't find where it comes out. | ||
| Dtaylor |
I recommend Posi-Taps for tapping (and their other products for splicing, etc. etc.) So much better than Scotchloks -- better connection, less trauma to the insulation, and handy for tight spaces. http://www.posi-products.com/posiplug.html  | ||
| Uly_man |
"Where can you tap into the black fan wire?". I would do it at the ECM end and with a in-line fuse just to be on the safe side. So that would be ECM wire tap > fuse > switch > batt neg. I would NEVER use a Scotchlok for a permanent job but they are ok for a "testing" situation. | ||
| Crempel |
According to what I can see in the schematics, the black/orange wire is the one to tap into? Is that correct? | ||
| Uly_man |
BK/O number 6 pin but do a test to be sure. |
