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Anfear
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 04:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just adding my name to the list.
Rear drive side bearing fell apart while riding.
2009 UlyssesXT 11,000 mi
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Electraglider_1997
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 05:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Get the 2010 rear wheel with the 3 larger bearings and seals and all will be way better. Can't say if they are still available though. American Sportbike doesn't seem to carry them at this time. That is where I got two of them, one for my ULY and my son's ULY.
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Anfear
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 06:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks. I actually have a 2010 wheel. I was going to wait until I needed tires to change it.
My 2010 wheel had the new bearings installed at a Harley shop. They tapped them in instead of pressing them. The inner races barley spin using my fingers. I'm hoping that when the wheel is installed on the bike and properly torqued they will spin freely. Anyone have any thoughts or advice on this?
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Dtaylor
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 10:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ask them to remove the bearings, provide you new bearings, a new spacer, and your money back.

Then find someone who will install them according to this:

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/bulletins/20 10RearWheel.pdf
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Sagehawk
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 10:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ditto on throwing those away and starting over. I've only pulled maybe 3 bearings out of a box new that were notchy or wouldn't roll. Bosses did not believe it when I asked to reorder. On other hand ,Ive seen tons of butchered bearings from folks with hammers, punches, and pipe. Sad to hear of that at your stealership. Proper maintenance habits should be paramount at a dealer of any kind.}
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Nobuell
Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 10:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have a Black 2010 rear wheel I can sell. PM me if interested. The axle is for an 1125 so you would need to order the 2010 XB axle. The wheel and spacers are the same for both.
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Anfear
Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 10:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks, I already have a 2010 wheel. bought it from American Sportbike. Bought the bearings from them as well but didn't have them install them because I had it powder coated to match the front wheel.
The bearings that came with the wheel turned fine off the bike.
Now that there installed they still turn but not with say two fingers. They feel tight.
I asked the Harley shop that installed them to press them in but they used a socket and hammer instead
Was hoping that someone here would tell me that was normal and that they would loosen up when I put it on the bike.
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Uly_man
Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 11:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"Was hoping that someone here would tell me that was normal and that they would loosen up when I put it on the bike". They will feel very tight as the spacer is new. The "two part" torquing up of the wheel will compress the spacer to its correct length. Also they need to fit new bearings.
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Electraglider_1997
Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 11:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Anfear,
The three bearing for both our ULY 2010 rear wheels were installed by American Sportbike and they felt very tight to impossible to turn with my fingers so I would not say yours are any different than ours. I've put probably 15 or 20,000 miles on my Uly's rear wheel and have had no problems. My son's ULY also has not experienced any rear wheel bearing or any rear wheel problems since we installed the 2010 wheel. Another thing is that I reused all the original pulley and rotor bolts on both bikes and that has not been a problem. I'm not one to buy new bolts when they seem to be in good shape. I also have never replaced any of the muffler hose clamps and they've never failed either. Over tightening is what causes failures with those particular parts is my opinion.
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Uly_man
Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 11:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The HD PDF file shows that you do not need to use a hydraulic press to do this. You should be able to make up something with rod, nuts, washers, sockets, steel plate, etc to do it. As long as they are pressed in squarely I see no problems. Cool them first and use grease.
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Hughlysses
Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 12:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The three bearing for both our ULY 2010 rear wheels were installed by American Sportbike and they felt very tight to impossible to turn with my fingers so I would not say yours are any different than ours.

I have the same experience: 3-bearing wheel with bearings pre-installed by American Sport Bike. The bearings aren't notchy at all, but they've always felt tight. Even after ~25k miles they're still difficult to turn by hand.
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Electraglider_1997
Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 12:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hugh,
Glad that our two wheels are not lone rangers in that regard. Apparently no problemo though.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 12:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If the tapped them in with a socket, yeah, that could be a problem (depending on how hard they "tapped").

If they tapped them in with a plate, then it may be fine.

The problem with the socket is that it is fine for most of the insertion, but once the bearing makes contact with the spacer, the inner race is now supported internally while you are trying to drive the outer race deeper.

That being said, I would think it would take more then a light tap to coin the bearing.
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Uly_man
Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 12:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"Even after 25k miles they're still difficult to turn by hand". Mine are and I would say that is about right. The reason, I think, is because it has an alloy spacer. Once you torque up the wheel the inner bearing carrier will line up with the outer bearing carrier as the alloy compresses. Something that does not happen with a steel spacer as it has no "relative" give in it. You can "whack up" the axle on a steel spaced axle but if you do it on this bike you will damage the bearings. So if you have your wheels removed/ re-fitted by someone who does not know this make sure they do them up with a torque wrench.

If you find, with the wheel removed, that the spacer is loose in the hub then it has been over compressed and I would replace it. The difference in length of a new to a correctly compressed spacer is stupid small. Something, if I remember right, in the region of +/- 0.001 inch which is very hard to measure without a large vernier gauge.

It is a over precise/ complicated system for a road bike. I can see no reason for its use.
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Hughlysses
Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 12:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It is a over precise/ complicated system for a road bike. I can see no reason for its use.

There is quite a bit of tolerance allowed in fitting the bearings. The bearing on one side is pressed in tight to the bottom of the bore; the bearing(s) on the other side are pressed in until they contact the spacer. As long as the spacer is longer than the distance between the bottom of the two bearing bores in the wheel and the axle is torqued properly, there won't be a problem. A steel spacer would be a little more immune to abuse.

BTW- Has anyone changed the bearings on a 3-bearing wheel yet? I can imagine the dual bearings on the sprocket side are going to be a bitch to get out.

(Message edited by Hughlysses on August 27, 2015)
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Uly_man
Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 01:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I see what you are saying Hugh. Put it this way?

I have had a 06 and a 10 Uly and out of four wheels three needed the bearings changed at less than 7000 miles. 06 bike rears on the 5k service and fronts at 7k miles. 10 bikes fronts on the 5k service. And the 10 bike was supplied by Blackbear, UK who removed and refitted the axles with anti seize before the bike was sold. If they (the best UK Buell dealer) and HD cannot get it right from new then I would have to ask myself what the problem might be. And I am a Mechanical Engineer myself.
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Anfear
Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 01:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks everyone.
I'm encouraged hearing that others have felt the bearings to be tight when installed. They don't feel notchy and they do spin. Just not as easily as they did off the wheel.
I'm going to install the wheel on the bike and see what happens. I'll get some bearings for my original wheel and use that as a back up.
Only thing is I use my Uly as my long distance two up bike (girlfriend loves it, used to tour on my Sportster ) so I worry about being out in the boondocks and having the bearings go. Maybe that's what makes it an adventure bike
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Reepicheep
Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 01:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I keep extra bearings and an extra spacer in a kit in a side bag for any trip to boondocks.

I bought them waiting for the wheel bearings to die... which was about 20,000 miles ago, and they are still going strong.

At this point, it appears they may outlast my crank bearing.
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Sagehawk
Posted on Friday, August 28, 2015 - 03:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The two bearings on drive side, are they just a single row bearing like originals? What clearance spec is stamped on them? (C0, c2, c3 etc). Has anyone measured the bore of hub when they have had the bearing out for replacement? Some say to reduce torque torque when making axle up. What is a good number to look at then?
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Hughlysses
Posted on Friday, August 28, 2015 - 03:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

They are single row like the originals, but slightly larger.

The original two bearing wheels used 6006-2RS - 55 x 30 x 13 mm. The three bearing wheels use 6206-2RS - 62 x 30 x 16 mm. All bearings have double seals. Not sure about the clearance spec, but I seem to remember it being C2.

Stock torque is ~50 ft-lbs, correct? I've seen people suggest using as little as 25 ft-lbs. YMMV
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Uly_man
Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2015 - 07:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"Not sure about the clearance spec, but I seem to remember it being C2". These bearings have two specs of clearance. If you buy the HD OEM ones your ok but if you buy aftermarket ones you need to get the right type. It may well be C2 but I can not remember either. Sorry Guys.
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Smorris
Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2015 - 11:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

i am by no means a mechanic but have been a parts changer for a while. my 06 now has '10 rear wheel. i designed and had made custom bearing presses to install bearings-- while at the same time the presses hold the aluminum bearing spacer sleeve in near perfect alignment with the bearings while tightening down the presses with the through bolt. that being said, with experience, a hammer and an appropriate socket does work if you recognize the sound made when the bearing seats into the hub-- this procedure works best with non-aluminum hubs. heat and cold are key with aluminum especially
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Mark_weiss
Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2015 - 10:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

When the bearings are installed in the hub, with slight preload against the spacer, it will indeed be notably more difficult to turn the inner races by finger pressure.

If you want to get an accurate feel of how the bearings feel, install the axle, fit a spacer tube over the axle which will bear against the inner race, then use a nut on the end of the axle and bring to standard torque. The axle should rotate smoothly with absolutely no free play.
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Sagehawk
Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2015 - 10:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

side note on bearings. road king got timkens ripped out years ago and some outfit sealing a double row set up for front and rear wheels was what i went with. have not screwed with wheel bearings since on that bike. you would think that being a machinist guy, i would enjoy shimming timkens for this thing. just got tired of it. wifes sporster still has timkens as she doesn't put miles on like the king. best 160.00 i ever spent on that bike. kits came with spacers, bearing and instructions as well. new tires when they were first put in and went thru the alignment process of motor and wheels. years ago and haven't needed to go back thru all that again. made a axle emulator that i put thru bearings and stack spacers on and when installing wheel , the emulator is driven out with axle right behind and keeping spacers in place. small things.
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Tootal
Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 01:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I will say that my old 91 FLHS had 100,000 miles on the original Timkens. Then I changed them only because I was doing preventative overhaul! They still looked and felt good. I pulled them out at every tire change and cleaned, repacked and replaced them with new seals. That's the beauty of Timkens, they will last a long time with proper maintenance, BUT, a really good sealed bearing, installed correctly, will last a long long time without lifting a finger.
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Uly_man
Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2015 - 09:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

There are quite a number of things to consider with this hub/ bearing design.

Ok so you fit the rotor side bearing which would align the wheel, add the spacer, then the pulley side bearing and torque it up. My thoughts are that the bearing, on the pulley side, outer carrier would/ might need to move (on torquing it up) to make the inner and outer bearing carriers perfectly align. Since the bearing is VERY tight in the hub I find that difficult to believe. On a normal bike the bearings sit at the bottom of the hub and the spacer is at the right distance between the inner bearing carriers and NOTHING can move.

Then there is the heat issue. All bearings get hot with use. If they overheat the grease will liquefy and run out of the bearing. If the bearing is creating more heat because it is not fitted correctly and the grease is being lost the bearing is going to break down VERY quickly. Also if grease can get out of the bearing water can get in and will "wash out" any grease as well.

Then there is, but not sure how relevant it is, the issue of seized hub bearings or even the axle if trying to get a seized one out. Side loading bearings NEVER does them any good. They are just NOT designed for that.

The whole issue is way, way to problematic for my liking. As a result I "load" my bearings by feel and take my own risk on it. The torque comes out at around 35 - 40, if I recall right, and that is with a new wrench.

Remember torque settings are only good with clean shafts/ threads. If not then you will NOT be torquing them up correctly.
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Etennuly
Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2015 - 11:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ya know.....I have spent a fair amount of time on this issue with my Uly and a few others. I am in total agreement with Ulyman, except I torque to 35 and then 50.

I have envisioned another potential cause of failure that I have not yet heard mentioned. The way the bearing outer race press fits into the wheel comes into question in my mind. I heat the hub and cool the bearing to make for an easy, smooth, and non destructive complete fit.

My question becomes the "complete" fit part. If you are pushing a bearing into a press fit hole and it bottoms completely it will be perpendicular and properly aligned. What if say you push a small bit of aluminum from the wheel into the base of the bearing's land fall area. If one side of the race is held out say a few thousandths of an inch it would be cause for the bearing to not run true. That could easily accelerate the bearing's self destructive path.

Given that, for the bottomed out left side bearing.....what of the right side where the bearing is left to "float" within the press fit walls with no "bottom" fit-ment to align it? This could even more easily leave the race a bit out of alignment.....and yes.....they can be pressed in improperly with an out of aligned angle.
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Uly_man
Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2015 - 11:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

From my understanding of posts, on fitting the bearings, the rotor side "bottoms" in the hub but the pulley side bearing does not fully IE It "floats" to pull into the right spec. Or something along those lines.

The thing is with a normal system you KNOW it is right. With this one you do not nor is it easy to check that it IS RIGHT. All of this is proven by the problems people have had. Also it has nothing to do with the orange bearings as they were still fitting them on the 10 bikes fronts.

I final torque to 35 - 40 as it feels right for me and take the hit if needed. I find most torque settings on this bike to be a bit on the high side. In fact I have only ever used a torque wrench before on bike/ car engines. Anything else has never been a problem. Just me though.
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Court
Posted on Friday, May 12, 2023 - 06:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Lighting up an old thread here . . . . .

I am in the process of trying to get my 2008 Buell XB12X Ulysses on the road. It's been sitting for several years with only an occasional trip around the block.

I've purchased new tires and am looking for parts and install intel information on the "best" options for the following:

FRONT WHEELl - mine has a slight dent, looks like it hit something. Not bad.

FRONT WHEEL BEARINGS - I recall, when I did not need them, lots of evolving discussion about the best wheel bearings. I'd like to make certain I get the best ones I can.

3 BEARING REAR WHEEL BEARINGS - Ditto

BRAKE PADS FRONT AND REAR - Which are the best pads for street/touring

BELT - Best source for a new belt.

In addition, if anyone knows a shop that you'd trust to do Buell work in the area of the Hudson Valley I'd love to know about them. The old standbys I knew want nothing to do with a Buell.

Any and all help appreciated.

Court
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Tootal
Posted on Friday, May 12, 2023 - 11:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey Court! I just thought you might want to start a new thread since these old ones don't pop up on top of the list for folks to see. I just saw it on an email and then I had to search for it. I can't offer any help other than if you can find the Buell part number for the bearings there might be a Harley dealer that can still get them for you. I wish I had the information on fit. Some say it's a C2 bearing. I've found most folks sell C3 bearings which are for electric motors and higher rpm. Getting the original bearings and seeing the bearing number might disclose that information. Good luck to you, hope you're back on the road with it soon!
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Court
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2023 - 04:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey . . thanks much.
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