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Buell Forum » Big, Bad & Dirty (Buell XB12X Ulysses Adventure Board) » Archive through October 09, 2015 » ECM relocation, Deustch plug question « Previous Next »

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Phelan
Posted on Friday, August 07, 2015 - 12:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Has anybody ever considered using some male and female Deustch plugs to make wire extensions to relocate the ECM to a more suitable position, like in the storage compartment, rather than just trying to tweak it around in the rat's nest enough not to hit?
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Germblast
Posted on Friday, August 07, 2015 - 08:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'd consider this as a permanent fix, would be nice to see if someone would come up with a parts list or company would sell a 8" extension set. I'd look into it, but have WAY too many things going on right now.

The only drawback would be if there was any signal degradation or voltage drop enough to prevent it from running properly.
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Froggy
Posted on Friday, August 07, 2015 - 09:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The additional wire length would not be an issue with signal, but the connectors might. The Lightning Long/STT have the same tail section but the ECM is right by the seat latch, so the wiring is little bit longer to get back there.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, August 07, 2015 - 09:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

There are some analog signals going through there, but those deutsche connectors are pretty well engineered. I wouldn't be worried about introducing another pair. The wiring routing to get it back to the storage area would probably be the bigger problem (making sure nothing gets pinched or rubbed).
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Teeps
Posted on Friday, August 07, 2015 - 11:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Best way to relocate the ECM beyond the existing space would be to:
a) mount the ECM in your chosen location.
b) using new wires, terminals & couplers; make a new wiring
harness from the ECM to all ECM connected components.
Or factory in-line crimps.

A lot of work, but this should be the most reliable way to move the ECM beyond the existing area.

Note: I will not be doing this any time soon.

(Message edited by teeps on August 07, 2015)
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Ourdee
Posted on Friday, August 07, 2015 - 11:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

There is plenty of wire already there to relocate it, or change it's angle and add a plate to protect it. Keep it simple.
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Uly_man
Posted on Saturday, August 08, 2015 - 09:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"Keep it simple". I would agree. I simply cut off some of the ECM looms covering, to make it more flexible, and pushed the ECM into a lower position and cable tied it to the main loom/ parts around it. I tested the seat clearance and all parts for flex and vibs. No issues and it seems to work great.

If you must extend the wiring I would NOT use crimps myself. Solder and heat shrink cover them since the more mechanical connections you have the more faults you may have in the future with the ECM. It will also look a hell of a lot more professional.
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Griffmeister
Posted on Saturday, August 08, 2015 - 05:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Solder not such a good idea. On small stranded wire this becomes a stress point. Okay for your stereo sitting on the shelf, but under any kind of vibration (like a Uly?) the wires will begins to break one strand at a time. Believe it or not, a properly done crimp connection is better. Still need to weatherproof though. A little dielectric would help and can still use that heat shrink, too.
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Phelan
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 11:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hence why in my original post, I mentioned doing it just as the factory wiring. 1-1 wiring extensions with Deustch plugs (aka waterproof, crimped connectors) on each end. But I can't seem to find any, so alas, I suppose I'll just relocate it how everyone has and hope it doesn't keep getting hit.
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Panhead_dan
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 11:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

When faced with this problem I gave it a lot of thought, including lengthening the wires so it would reach to a better location. I figured if I could put the ecm somewhere with less heat, it would warrant lengthening the wires. Ultimately I decided that all those additional connections added opportunities for failure and just lowered the darned thing much like Uly Man said above. It's working perfectly now and I am glad I went that route.
The job took about 15 minutes and cost me 2 zip ties.
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Germblast
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 11:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Uly_Man - could you possibly get a picture of what you did with yours? I am still trying to find the right spot for mine and could use another option.

Thanks
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Phelan
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 12:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yes, pics please. Thanks!
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Uly_man
Posted on Monday, August 10, 2015 - 03:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ok I will add a pic later.

Soldering? I do see your point as in fact this is what happens to the spliced wires at the steering head and breaks as Griffmeister says. But that is not how I do it.

This is what I do. Cut the wires square and then trim off about 8mm of the insulation each end. Push the wires together so that they interlock IE Not twisting them together. Solder them together then clean off any flux to stop corrosion. Paste the joint 15mm either side of the center of the joint with contact adhesive, cover it with 30mm of heat shrink tubing and then shrink it down. If it is only one wire then add a second longer covering of heat shrink tubing. If it is multiple wires then stagger the joints and then add a final covering of heat shrink tubing. With this you can also add some silicon sealer inside if you wish.

All of this will make the joints vapor, water and near vibration proof. Any points of possible flexing should be allowed for way past the joint positions. Granted this is a "long winded" job with many wires but it is the best way if you need to do it.

Even a crimped joint will fail due to movement/ vibration and worse still the air gets inside them (because not vapor proof), corrode and fall apart. Also this corrosion works its way up the wires damaging them. That is what the "blacking" of the wires you see sometimes after cutting back the insulation. I have seen this on bikes and cars more times than I care to remember and the older they are the worse it gets. Just me though.





(Message edited by uly_man on August 10, 2015)
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Griffmeister
Posted on Monday, August 10, 2015 - 06:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Of course, if you just think about it, every terminal in every plug, Deutsch, Amp, Metripack or whatever, is crimped on. This could be why most manufacturers recommend doing repairs in the same manner. I do see the benefit of using a good brand of heat shrink (not too rigid) to provide support beyond the splice.
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Marcbe
Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2015 - 01:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Have a look here ; )

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/767574.html?1439357264
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Uly_man
Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2015 - 12:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yes it is ok to use crimps, I do myself sometimes, on most anything if it is done right. The problem is many people DO NOT do it right. They use cheap/ bad quality crimps, bad tools to crimp them with and then leave the wires unsupported to become damaged by vibration, etc. Seen it many times. No so much an issue with most things but the ECM use very small voltages which can be effected by high resistance paths from bad connections. This bike has enough wiring/ electronic/ component issues without introducing any more.

Put it this way. To extend the ECM loom the DDFI-2 (06/07) bikes ECM has 24 pins, which would make 48 extra joints, and the later DDFI-3 bikes ECMs have 34 pins making for an extra 68 joints. Unless you cut off the Deutsch plugs and fitted new ones and I may be wrong but I think you need the specific tool to crimp on the pins for this product.

And then you get a fault on the bike? Is it one of THOSE 48/ 68 joints or something else. Sounds like a nightmare to me.

Deutsch plugs are Military spec and just about the best you can buy but not cheap.
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Griffmeister
Posted on Thursday, August 13, 2015 - 12:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"Deutsch plugs are Military spec and just about the best you can buy but not cheap."

Your not kidding, the terminals alone that we use on most of our machines are close to $2 each after the matrix. If your doing 68 connections that's $136 not including the plug body and seal. I think the body from HD for the ECM is like $12 each if they even have them anymore.

Yeah, a bad crimp is worse than not doing the repair at all. There is a special tool for the deutsch pins, has an adjustable depth setting as well as an adjustment for wire gauge so it's done just right. The ones we have cost about $250 but I'm sure you can find them cheaper. Hell, even the Metripack terminals should be done with a special crimper, at least you can get one of those at NAPA for $65.
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