| Author | Message | ||
     Rapuckett55 |
2006 XB12X I made a major mistake. I made the XB9 primary swap. First, I didn't press the rotor from the gear, I encouraged it loose with a hammer. Not even thinking about the magnets (there's a thread about that somewhere on here). Magnets came loose and busted the stator. It took me a couple weeks to get the parts ordered and get them installed. MAJOR MISTAKE: After completion, I noticed a sound that the bike shouldn't be making. When I tightened the primary chain, it got better. So I rode it. I love the new gearing. The sound did not go away. I rode it maybe 5 days to work. One day the noise was almost gone. Another day it was worse. Until it stopped pushing the bike altogether. The engine was running fine, but no go. Turns out the splines on my crankshaft are stripped  . So, it looks like I'm going to attempt this myself. I used to think I was pretty good with a wrench. Not a mechanic, but I did okay. However, I haven't had much luck lately. I know this is a big job and I feel up to the task. I know it's not the same, but I used to change out pistons on my old Honda CR125 2-stroke. That's easy. This is MUCH more involved. I do have the service manual (p/n: 99494-06Y). I need a little help in rounding up some part numbers: - Crankshaft/flywheel. I bought the 2006 parts manual (p/n: 99575-06Y). It shows p/n for the Flywheel & connecting rod: 24215-04A. I thought I read where someone was looking at using the 2008 flywheel on a 2006 Uly. I can't find it now. Thoughts? - Head gasket. I've read some on the Cometic head gaskets. Looks like I can get those from Americansportbike.com. there are 2 options: 0.030" & 0.040". Looks like the 0.040" is stock, but the 0.030" would add compression. Which set should I get? - I need a gasket kit for everything else. Is there one part number that covers all the gaskets, or are there several? - I've read a little about the valves getting carbon covered. How do I clean those? Do they need new seals? - A friend said I should hone the cylinders. Is that necessary? I want this engine to last and it makes since to do this while I'm in there, but I'm on a budget. I was very satisfied with how it ran before. Anything else I'm missing? Anyone care to estimate time? Would 20 hours be close? Thanks in advance for all the help. This board is amazing. Ralph | ||
| Phelan |
You can use an '08-10 crank, but you have to use an 08-10 front primary sprocket. I used Cometic gaskets in my rebuild, and we use them almost exclusively here at the shop. (Message edited by phelan on June 18, 2015) | ||
| Splatter |
"You can use an '08-10 crank, but it has to be drilled, tapped, and notched for the timing cup." Why would a crank have to be modified for a timing cup? The timing cup bolts on to the front intake cam not the crank. | ||
| Phelan |
Blonde moment, I should know better, especially since I just had my cams out the other day. Thanks Aaron for the correction. (Message edited by phelan on June 18, 2015) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Cometic gasket kits are great, and cheaper than HD. For the heads, put them in bubble wrap and send them to a board sponsor (Pammy did great work for me) and they will come back perfect. For the motor, I would strip it all the way down, but probably not split the cases, and send it to a pro shop to have the 08 and up crank put in, then have them ship it back and you can reassemble. | ||
| Griffmeister |
I believe the overhaul gasket kit #17058-02D should have everything you need as far as gaskets go. This is out of the 08 book, but I think it covers all previous models since I still have a lot of leftover parts in the kit I got for my 08. If you do send out the cases and the heads you might ask if you can send the new gaskets since you will already have them in the kit (including valve seals). You can inspect the cylinders for scoring and to see if the original crosshatching is visible. Push a compression ring through the cyl. with the top of a piston and check the ring gap at various spots. If it looks good and the gap stays pretty even then freshen up the crosshatch with a 240 grit ball hone. This will help seat the new rings. Read through the manual a few times just to get a good idea of how to do this. The hardest part to realize is it's not a "rebuild engine from A to Z" guide but rather a collection of different segments that aren't necessarily in the order that you need to do them in. Good luck. | ||
| Hughlysses |
If you want to make the crank swap, talk to Darkhorse Crank Works. They helped develop the XBRR crank which led to the improved 08-up crankshaft. They told me the bearing in the left half of the crankcase needs to be changed (which requires a press) and they recommended align-boring the case halves. Last time I checked, the 08-up crank is actually a few bucks cheaper than the earlier version. No modifications to the crank are mandatory, but the 08-crankshaft doesn't have a mark on the left flywheel that is used to set the static ignition timing on the 06-07 bikes. I don't think that would be too hard to figure out. You need to accurately measure the placement of the notch on your old crank and figure out how to make a permanent mark in the same spot on the new crankshaft. | ||
| Jesse_lackman |
I don't understand why the crank splines would strip. I did the XB9 swap this spring on my 2010. The crank sprocket came complete so I didn't have to swap anything. The crank splines stripping seems to be separate problem from any stator/rotor issue. | ||
| Rapuckett55 |
Thank you guys for all the help. This is going to be a slow process getting this back on the road. Will probably spend only a couple of hours each weekend. What are the advantages of a 2008 over a 2006 crankshaft? I've been doing some searching for the 2006 crankshaft and it appears to no longer be available. I may be forced into changing. If it's an upgrade to a better part, I'm okay with that. Something strange. My original stock rotor had drill holes (or at least partial holes) to balance it. The new one did not. Could the rotor being unbalance cause this? I assumed that it should have been balanced at the factory. I want to do this right and no more getting impatient. It helps that I have a loaner FZ1 to ride until I get mine back on the road  . But the knees of this 6'5" 41 year old man can't take long rides. My 45 minute commute may be all I can handle. Ralph | ||
| Froggy |
The 2008 crank is beefier and more durable, and is one of the reasons the 2008+ models have a higher redline. You should still be able to get a 06 crank, but I'd have to look into it to confirm. | ||
| Rapuckett55 |
Thanks Froggy! I like the idea of beefier and more durable. I found this: http://http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harley-Davidson-Bue ll-flywheel-assy-/171826332331?hash=item2801a5c2ab &vxp=mtr I notice that there's a difference in the retaining bolt/nut. My 2006 has a big nut. Looks like the 2008 uses a bolt. If so, I would need help with the p/n for that bolt. Plus, I'm going to need a new sprocket. I want the 34 teeth XB9 sprocket. I ordered p/n 40241-02A last time. Is that valid for the 2008 crank? Ralph | ||
| Hughlysses |
Ralph- The 2008-up crank has different spline arrangement so you need to order the 2008-up primary sprocket and the bolt you mention. The bolt is supposed to be a one-use item. IIRC, the 2008 crank pin is 1-1/2" diameter versus 1-1/4" diameter on the earlier engines, so it's a substantial increase. The rods are also stronger. All this was developed as part of the XBRR race program and eventually applied to the XB street bike engines. Hugh | ||
| Froggy |
There are lots of little changes on the 2008 setup including a lighter flywheel, different bolt like you noticed, and the XB9 sprocket is different. You can use TwinMotorcycle's site to look up part numbers http://www.twinmotorcycles.nl/webshop/parts.asp?ja ar=2008&model=E7398E2C-52BD-4E5A-8F35-2D81BE863FFC &sid=125ACD98-BA52-442F-B571-B113FA4B5C40 For the XB9 sprocket you will want "XB9 Alternator Rotor & 34 Tooth Sprocket Assembly: 30018-08" $163.88 | ||
| Teeps |
Just a thought, but at the end of the day it might be cheaper & better to get another engine. There are many on eBay for under 2 grand, with free (included) shipping! | ||
| Rapuckett55 |
Teeps - I like your thought. I was thinking I could get this project done under $1000, but I'm not sure, now that I'm adding up parts. If I was to entertain a new engine, would any XB12 engine work? I see a few XB12R Firebolt engines available. I would prefer newer, like 2006 and up, but what would be the oldest I could consider? Ralph | ||
| Phelan |
Ideally, '05-'06. '04s and '07s have been known to have crank issues, though no telling how many are effected. '08-up would require a lot of rewiring as they use a whole different EFI setup, DDFI 3. the oiling system, crank, TPS, manifold heads, etc are different. You can use a later motor but expect to get a full wiring harness of similar year to wire up DDFI 3 instead of DDFI 2. | ||
| Froggy |
Hugh put an 09 Firebolt motor in his 07 Uly, the motor itself is the easy part, but given the vast differences in everything like the fuel injection it is quite a bit of work to convert everything. All XB12 motors of a given year are the same, regardless which bike it came out of, I'd try to find another 06 12 motor as that will be the most plug and play, but any 04-07 would work. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Yea, as others said above, 05-06 would be easiest and would be plug-and-play. 2008 through 2010 pretty much mandate use of a new wiring harness (about $350 when I bought mine) and ECM. If you do an engine swap, you can part out your existing engine and recover a lot of the cost. | ||
| Airdale |
I wish not hijack Ralph's thread...but could you not just install the dd2fi injectors in a 08-10 motor or are there more issues than just the fuel injection? Just seeking a better understanding about our unique Buells. Thanks Dave | ||
| Phelan |
Injectors aren't the issue. The TPS, fuel rail, and manifold are different. | ||
| Rapuckett55 |
@Jesse_lackman - I agree about the rotor/stator being a separate issue. I don't know what would have caused the splines to strip. Even if I didn't tighten the nut to 180ft/lbs and use red loctite (which I did), that should not have happened. My theory was that the new rotor was not balanced and that reaked havoc. | ||
| Reepicheep |
The service manual torque for the stator nut was wrong for a long time... Isn't the "right" value more like 200ftLbs? Once that nut is loose, that thing is banging around on there and taking a little bite out of those splines with every crank rotation. | ||
| Rapuckett55 |
That would explain it. I could have swore that it was 250ft/lbs. I don't have a torque wrench that goes that high. I weigh about 250lbs, so I would stand on my breaker bar 1 foot out to tighten. Just looked it up again. I stated above 180, but my manual says 190-210ft/lbs. My torque wrench goes to about 150ft/lbs. I should have borrowed my dad's. This last time, I got it to 150, then changed over to my breaker bar and tightened it to my best guess of 190ft/lbs. If that is really the problem I will be excited and want to throw myself off of a cliff at the same time. I hate that I made that mistake, but at least I'll know what the problem is. No more guessing on Torque. I may just have to buy myself a new Torque wrench .... | ||
| Phelan |
When it comes to torque wrenches, a Snap On is better than a snap off! | ||
| Reepicheep |
If you weigh 250 and stood a foot out, it was torqued to 250 pounds, no question. Don't beat yourself up. It's just stuff, it breaks and people make mistakes. Generally it turns out fine and sometimes it doesn't. You fix it, or scrap it and move on to the next thing... | ||
| Hughlysses |
Hell, you could keep your engine and just have the sprocket welded to the crank end; what have you got to lose? Worst case, it won't hold or your stator will go bad at some point or your clutch will wear out, and then you'll probably have to replace the crank. But maybe you'll get 20 or 30k miles out of a ~$50 weld job first. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I *seriously* thought about that when I had a KDX-250 with stripped splines on the transmission output shaft. I split the cases and did it right, and it has been a wonderful bike for the decade since, and I never want to sell it. But I do wonder how long it would have lasted... | ||
| Brother_in_buells |
Your not alone, http://www.twinmotorcycles.nl/artikelen.asp?cid=20 &aid=657 | ||
| Jesse_lackman |
Hughlysses that would be a redneck hack job. I LOVE it! But sad to say I would not have the guts to do it. even though I did built a 400hp Dodge 360 out of spare parts. Used cam, used 340 pistons that stuck out of the block deck about an eighth of an inch. I clearance the heads with a Makita side grinder. It survived dyno testing and circle track racing to 6500+ RPM. We called it The Makita Special. | ||
| Reepicheep |
That was one knackered uly. Poor thing. |
