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Etennuly
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2014 - 09:29 am: | 
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A little anti-sieze on the plug threads is a good idea for future removals.  |
Chisleu
| | Posted on Friday, October 31, 2014 - 03:27 pm: |
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We changed the plugs and wires today. I am not sure that it solved the problem. When it was 1/2 warm after changing it, it still popped when I held the throttle at 3000rpms / 2nd gear. It seemed to clear up when the bike warmed up, but it is too soon to tell for sure.
Check out this image! http://i.imgur.com/sBKKVnV.jpg
One of the spark plugs was hella lighter than the other. I don't know which is which. One of them looks pretty ideal except for some soot. The other looks like it is leaner, but with the same temp indicators.
Is this normal?
Should I keep chasing this misfire? |
Chisleu
| | Posted on Saturday, November 01, 2014 - 08:49 pm: |
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I did some more searching and found some people pulled timing instead of adding fuel to the low-throttle areas.
I'm going to try to push the 45s down to 43 and see what happens. Then maybe down to 42, 41, 40 if it doesn't correct the issue.
Hopefully it can be corrected. I have a nice 4 season coat coming this week and I want to ride this winter!  |
Figorvonbuellingham
| | Posted on Saturday, November 01, 2014 - 09:14 pm: |
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Test the coils?
(Message edited by figorvonbuellingham on November 01, 2014) |
Chisleu
| | Posted on Saturday, November 01, 2014 - 10:04 pm: |
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It happens under low load. If the coils were failing, it would happen under heavy load I think.
I think it is one cylinder leaning out. I read that the timing was a little high to make a cleaner burn for emitions. |
Sagehawk
| | Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2014 - 09:03 am: |
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The timing maps i have on stock 07x are the weirdest setup ive ever seen. Been rolling up some of the numbers in closed loop area as those seem a bit retarded. i will post some maps tonight when get home. Waiting on flight to houston from boston now. Interested to see others thoughts on the overall timing program that works well. Bike is stock with muffler in open position. |
Chisleu
| | Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2014 - 09:08 am: |
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I just realized that fuel/ignition map front/rear is referring to the cylinder... I thought it was referring to accel / decel because of the timing near redline on rear...
Shit. I wish I knew which plug was lean now.
I wish the plugs weren't so hard to pull.
I'm still going to back the timing down for low-load 3000+ rpms. Then when I change the oils (soon) and pull the plugs to check the coloration and add fuel accordingly.
EDIT: I would definitely appreciate your maps.
(Message edited by chisleu on November 02, 2014)
(Message edited by chisleu on November 02, 2014) |
Chisleu
| | Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2014 - 10:43 am: |
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Here are two msq's.
STOCK.msq is the maps for the unmodified race ecm that came with my ECM.
HACK1.msq is the maps currently on the bike. I pulled timing at 3000rpms and above in the very hot area above 40. I pulled 2-3 degrees out and tried to smooth it a little where it meets up with the higher load timing map.
I also added 2 across the VE tables for the cylinder that I'm guessing was running lean.
I let it heat up and ran for a good while (maybe 30 miles) and the change was dramatic. The 3000+ low throttle is all but gone and where it used to misfire and jerk, now it just pops a little. under 3000, it is still about the same.
I have a 2 hour ride today, but after that I plan to hack it again and pull timing from the low load under 3000rpms and 1 more degree from the above 3000rpms.
Then I plan to leave it alone until we pull the plugs when I do the oil changes and adjust the primary chain. Hopefully the plugs will have evened out. If one is richer than before and the other is still lean, then I will revert the VE changes and add 2 to the other fuel map.
I would love to get this thing on a dyno and tune WOT this summer. We have a big bike week in Myrtle Beach and there is always a dyno tuner or three in town.
It helps to actually attach the files:
http://pastebin.com/V6hz7UsV
(Message edited by chisleu on November 02, 2014) |
Chisleu
| | Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2014 - 06:40 pm: |
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I had a great ride today. I had no more issues above 3000, however I noticed the issues from 2000-3000 more readily. Since the table is setup at 2000 and 3000, it is very granular. I'm going to back down the 35s at 3000 RPMs dramatically rather than adjust the 2000s. I think 32 (then maybe 30 later) will take care of it nicely.
I'm very pleased to have the running issues working out. The idea of a lean misfire causing damage is sucky. The possibility of it causing a wreck in a corner I'm pushing hard is really sucky. haha |
Uly_man
| | Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2014 - 06:42 pm: |
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"I popped the seat off to discover an ECM branded with FOR RACE USE ONLY". According to your numbers, in V6hz7UsV, the ECM is a BUEGB231. The BUEGB is for a 2004 XB Firebolt/ Lightning. The "123" is, I think, the ECM designation for the Buell alloy race can and NOT any other can. The 07 Uly ECM is a BUEIB. I have no idea if they can changed about, without modifications within the ECM, for differing bikes.
A standard 07 Uly should run perfectly well with good fuel. It should also run without problems with a free flowing air filter and can like a Remus. I KNOW IT DOES as I had one myself. What you do need to know though is that the 07 bikes do run lean, as standard, and need fueling adjustments to make the bike run at its best in the low to mid range if you do these sort of modifications IE A re-map or a fuel device.
I understand what you are trying to do but I would suggest, since you do not know this bike, this.
You ABSOLUTELY MUST check that all wires on the engine FI system have no damage and in particularly the ones that run over the rear cylinder head. Also that the face on the rear sub frame, that the battery negative and two other wires mount to, has NO PAINT on it. Ask me why on both counts?
If that was all good I would then load up the standard 07 ECM data and work from there. I have one if needed. You should also know that DDFI-2, as on the 07 bike, is a little crude and slow to react to varying conditions (and map changes) in relation to other modern FI systems. Again ask me how I know?
You, and everybody else, ABSOLUTELY MUST understand that the only way to "fault find" a engine running problem is to do "run" logs to asses the data. Anything else is just "guesstimating". But that is, of course, your/ there choice. Again ask me HOW I KNOW ?????
At the end of the day what and how you do it is up to you. Your money and time NOT MINE. |
Chisleu
| | Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2014 - 08:46 pm: |
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I did not load those ECM files. They were simply fuel system maps saved. The version on the box is for a 2006 xb12x and the map loaded was the stock map I found. It also matches the fuel and spark maps I found for the "race" maps I downloaded from some website.
This is a 2006 Uly. It doesn't run well currently. It misfires when cruising at 2000+ rpms (more so at 3000+.) It has a Buell race exhaust, K&N intake filter, and race ECM. It works great at higher load.
I have inspected all the wires I can see without taking any more stuff off than was required to change the plugs. Everything looks fine. I changed the VR to the MOSFET unit and haven't blown a bulb since.
I wish I had some widebands in the headers...
I can check the battery grounds. Yeah.. insulators on the battery ground would be ridiculous.
I will pull the entire EEPROM tomorrow when I back the timing down at 3k. I'm sure it is correct. I expect it was dealer installed, given the other OEM options on the bike. |
Sagehawk
| | Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2014 - 11:10 pm: |
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I am including my 07x timing maps like said earlier. where the cl and cll aeas are I have added 3 degrees up to 4ooo rpm. I rarely run over that as I just don't normally run that fast when by myself. with a group out of Houston , I have spent time at higher rpm for the fun of it.
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Uly_man
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2014 - 10:39 am: |
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"Yeah.. insulators on the battery ground would be ridiculous". Yes and it WAS on the pre 08 bikes. The paint on the post face needs to be filed away otherwise it affects the Earth resistance for the ECM earth. On my 06 bike it made the timing not change and in the end the bike would not turn over. It took me a quarter of an hour to fix but 2 YEARS to figure out? It is also a known tech fault from HD bulletins. Electrics can be a big problem on the Uly but not hard to fix.
"I have inspected all the wires I can see without taking any more stuff off than was required to change the plugs. Everything looks fine". There is a sub loom that runs between the rear cylinder head and the frame cross member section. Remove the air box base plate so you can see the cylinder heads and check the loom (hard to see) for damaged insulation. These wires are ALL the engine controls and if any one arcs to earth the engine will not run right. In my case it was one of the injection wires even though it had the plastic casing the the early bikes do not have IE HD must have found this problem themselves. The "intermittent" effect is caused by the engine moving front and back, as the engine revs, and the wire going to earth at one point then off again. A "missing" engine is a wiring problem/ damaged electronics for the most part. Also turn off the BAS for the moment as this can cause problems if faulty. Mine was.
Good hunting. |
Chisleu
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2014 - 01:09 am: |
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Woo. So I jammed on the gas in 1st gear and I think the clutch slipped. I am going to see how it goes tomorrow.
Is this all I need?http://www.jpcycles.com/product/632-078
Should I order some gaskets as well? I have been very busy with school so I haven't had time to hook up the computer. |
Chisleu
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2014 - 01:11 am: |
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Uly_man. Exceptional information. I will check that. |
Chisleu
| | Posted on Saturday, November 08, 2014 - 04:00 pm: |
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I followed Uly_man's instruction today.
I took the air box off and checked out the wires. There was a single wire coming up from the cylinder head that had a black heat shield on it. It was the only thing kinda damaged. It wasn't through the insulator, but the black heat shield was worn. I zip tied it up. I will get a heat capable wirewrap to put on it.
I checked the battery ground as well. It was already modified! No need to file anything.
I also checked into the ECM. I reflashed it with the stock ecm to undo any changes I made. Then I set the idle much higher. I set the idle pretty low when I got the bike. When I was working on it, I saw a sticker that said 1050-1150 idle so I changed it to bounce around in that range.
I went for a lap around the neighborhood and didn't see any misfires. I took my kid on a ride to WalMart and still had no misfires at all.
I did too many things to be sure, but I hope it wasn't a wiring issue because I didn't really do much down there. If it comes back though, that is the first place I'm going. Thanks for the information! |
Chisleu
| | Posted on Saturday, November 08, 2014 - 06:27 pm: |
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If there is another map file I should download to the bike, let me know. I thought the xb12's had the same engines and such. buellmods only has "xb12" maps available for download. The "race" version had the maps my bike had stock. |
Uly_man
| | Posted on Sunday, November 09, 2014 - 10:46 am: |
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"There was a single wire coming up from the cylinder head that had a black heat shield on it". Is that the one that goes to the air temp sensor because if it is it is not the sub loom that runs over the back of the rear cylinder head? It is VERY hard to see and is the reason, I think, most people miss it.
"I set the idle pretty low when I got the bike. When I was working on it, I saw a sticker that said 1050-1150 idle so I changed it to bounce around in that range". The idle needs to be 1050 rpm hot. A bit more is ok and depends on how you like it. The pre 08 bikes do not have an "idle up" valve IE It is just timing and fuel enrichment.
If you change out a ECM and/ or do a full re-flash of the ECM you MUST do a TPS reset in the CORRECT way. Unless you are sure that it was not changed before either of these were done in the mean time. Best to do it anyway to be sure.
Now you should check the ECMs numbers and settings. I have a "clean" 07 Uly OEM ECM map set if you need it. You should run a "on the road" ride log to confirm that all sensors are working correctly. The OEM can actuator should be disabled (as you do not have one) and it is best to switch off the BAS as well. You will need, given your can and such, to re-map or use a fueler on the bike for best results. If you change the fuel maps you MUST change BOTH maps equally IE What you change in one you must do to the other. This sort of thing is very much "seat of the pants" tuning and is somewhat hit and miss. |
Chisleu
| | Posted on Sunday, November 09, 2014 - 01:37 pm: |
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Cool. I will pull that off this week sometime. I have not flashed the ECM, only fuel and timing maps. I should have been more clear about that. None of the ECMs I downloaded would flash. They gave an error about being incompatible.
I did a TPS reset already. It was very easy, so I don't mind doing another after I flash the ECM.
I will datalog a ride if I can get my laptop to stay awake with the lid closed. It likes to sleep everything when I close the lid. Maybe I can backpack it with the laptop open.
Where is the ECM file? I can compare it to the one I have. It is labeled as you said before. (BUEGB231) |
Uly_man
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2014 - 10:49 am: |
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The whole ECM file is the .bin file. That is the one you SAVE as a backup BEFORE doing any changes in the ECM. If you lose it or it is corrupted you WILL NOT be able to replace it and your bike will be screwed. BE VERY WARNED??? The .xdf and .adx are the other files you need to run ECM-SPY or TunerPro and are on the ECM-SPY site. You load the ones you need for your Buell ECM version IE BUEGB231 or whatever. All the data numbers are in the .adf file for comparisons with what you have at the moment.
I would suggest, if it works ok, that you re-fit the OEM ECM and work from there as the race ECM was not made for the can you are using.
"It likes to sleep everything when I close the lid". You will need to disable ALL of the sleep and idle functions of the laptop and make sure the battery will last long enough to do the logged run. |
Chisleu
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2014 - 03:26 pm: |
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I don't have access to ECMSpy's website. I'm using the old version (1.x?) from a windows 7 virtual machine running on my macbook air.
The air doesn't have any way to disable sleep entirely. I haven't been able to prevent it in the past, but haven't tried recently.
I have a copy of my ECM, but I don't have any of the maps/ecms from ecmspy. Apparently it is all behind a paywall now. |
Bueller_bueller
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2014 - 04:42 pm: |
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Not sure which version of OS X you're running, but as far back as I can remember, go to System Preferences => Energy Saver => Select Power Adapter => Drag Computer Sleep and Display Sleep to Never => Uncheck Put hard disks to sleep when possible.
Oh, one quick edit/thought: You also have to adjust the power settings for your Win7 VM. It's got it's own power management...
That should do it... As long as you've on 110v, that should work. I run various VM's and it works for me. Please let me know if you have issues. BTW, I'm running Parallels... but that shouldn't really matter. Regards, M
(Message edited by Bueller_bueller on November 12, 2014) |
Chisleu
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2014 - 06:11 pm: |
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> As long as you've on 110v
Which is the problem! hah. I'm going to be on the motorcycle. I can keep the thing awake when it is plugged in, but not on battery.
It isn't a big deal. I'll put it in a backpack with the screen locked and the lid open.
I use VirtualBox extensively because I build Vagrant VMs for work. |
Bueller_bueller
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2014 - 11:18 am: |
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LOL You got me there!... Sounds like you've got it covered. It's the 'lid closed thing' that gets you... Apple, in their wisdom, expects an external monitor when the lid's closed... |
Chisleu
| | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2014 - 08:59 pm: |
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I'm thinking about replacing the front turnsignals with these:
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/specialty -high-power-led-spot-lights/led-product/1975/4501/
Then make a little circuit so that instead of turning on when the voltage goes high, it turns off and is on all the time. They have a really wide angle of view, so they might be too bright.  |
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