| Author | Message | ||
     Tempest766 |
Second time this has happened, and both times were after riding hard and fast on a four lane in 90ish degree heat. Got to my destination about 45 miles away and noticed my t-shirt had oil spots on it...then noticed that my right pants leg was saturated with oil...then noticed the engine smoking since I stopped...and oil dripping all over the engine. Disassembled the air box and found that the (rear cylinder?) breather tube had belched oil all over the place...saturated the filter, puddled in the air box, and leaked all over the cylinders. And now I'm worried about the fan bushings...Still works but for how long? Second time in two seasons this has happenned...and both times were right after replenishing oil (hot engine) to midway (second X up) between the two filler marks on the dipstick. The engine uses 0.75ml of oil per mile so I usually have to add oil after ever third fill up. Any (useful) suggestions as to why so much oil is exiting through the airbox (when it is clearly NOT being overfilled). Last year when I asked this question I got a couple drone answers about how a TPS reset and an EBR racing ECM will magically solve all my problems. Anyone with real technical experience got any real intelligent thoughts about this? | ||
| Hughlysses |
I've got to ask- how do you know your oil is not over-filled? With the 2008-up engines, the only way to get an accurate reading is with the engine hot and idling and the bike on the sidestand. I know that's not what the owner's manual says, but a lot of us have found it to be true. If you shut the engine off and wait any length of time before checking the oil, a substantial amount of oil can drain out of the swingarm, through the oil pump, and into the crankcase, giving you a false low dipstick reading. If you check the oil as noted above, the oil level should be no higher than the middle of the "X'ed" portion of the dip stick. If you're running it higher than that or if you're shutting the engine off and then checking the oil a few minutes later, I'll just about guarantee too much oil is your problem. The only other thing that might cause the engine to blow oil like that would be some sort of impending catastrophic failure- like completely shot rings causing lots of crankcase blow-by, and I'd say the odds of that are nil. | ||
| Tempest766 |
I do shut the engine off but IMMEDIATELY check the level...like within 5-10 seconds. Just long enough to grab a paper towel I have stuffed in the handle-bar bag and untwist the dipstick, then clean and reinsert, and pull and read the level. If the engine is running then it's blowing oil across where the dipstick sits so I cannot see how that would produce an accurate reading either. I occasionally use a maglight to look inside and verify approximate oil level while the engine is running. thanks for the comments though. | ||
| Rayycc1 |
maybe time for a catch can? I know i'm thinking it might be my next mod. | ||
| Tempest766 |
The breather reroute is on the agenda (soon), but as a solution "it's not". I never go for treating symptoms without understanding the underlying reasons. | ||
| Ourdee |
I think you have too much oil in it. | ||
| Ratbuell |
+1. Change your oil. Fill with EXACTLY the amount the manual says to put in it. Get the engine HOT. Check it immediately. THAT....is your "full" mark. Ignore the X's, ignore where it is on the stick relative to top or bottom, that IS the full mark for your motorcycle. | ||
| Ratbuell |
And...how much oil can you get out of an oil quart in the 5-10 seconds it takes you to get that paper towel? Check it running. | ||
| Sharkguy |
On my 09 I have to check the level with the motor running. As soon as the engine stops the level will be low or non existent. I'm assuming your 08 is similar. Take your bike for a ride get it good and hot, pull over somewhere safe and level, put your sidestand down, with the bike running check the oil level. This is the only way on mine to get repeatable results. I keep mine at the "dos X" which is what it reads right after an oil change. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
This is one reason the 06' ULY is the best year. Checking the oil is no hassle on the 06'. What did they do to the 08 to make checking the oil level such a mysterious ordeal? Buell claims the 08 has a stronger crank and that relatively may be so but who has an 06 with crank problems? 07 had some crank failures but only because the factory installed out of spec cranks. Even that problem seems to have been overblown. My apologies to those few ULY owners affected with the crank failures as I know that had to really blow. My son has the 07 model but his engine so far seems very solid but time and mileage will tell the tale. If his bike succumbs to that problem it will have still given him a good long service. | ||
| Sagehawk |
Curiousity has me asking, has anyone had a failure on the reed valve that is in the right side crank case? If that malfunctions, you would have air coming and going. Never have heard that mentioned anywhere on bad web. | ||
| Etennuly |
What weight oil are you running? I lost two quarts of 20-50 Mobil 1 in my former XB in 90F + temps on a 400 mile long run. I went back to 60W non syn HD oil per the book and never lost any again. When the thinner oil gets hot enough it vaporizes and goes out the vent tubes. Another thing that was found long ago about this problem, the vent tubes in the air box base can be pushed up too high. Intake air flow crossing over them supposedly caused enough vacuum to pull oil up the tubes. It was found that a half inch or so above the base plate is high enough. I check my oil usually when I get gas, bike warmed up, on side stand, engine off for a few minutes. Oil covering the bottom two X's is where the 2 1/2 new quarts on an oil change puts the level and it will stay there for a lot of miles. If I move it up a couple more X's it will soon be back down to the bottom two. The excess usually ends up lubricating the inside the air box. Mine is an '06 though. Hugh does the '08 up engine have a larger oil cooler and lines as well as a larger oil pump? Maybe these areas have enough greater volume that they hold the oil when shut down? Hope this helps. (Message edited by etennuly on July 03, 2014) | ||
| Hughlysses |
Buell claims the 08 has a stronger crank and that relatively may be so but who has an 06 with crank problems? The 08 crank was developed from their racing program according to Darkhorse Crank Works. I believe the earlier crank bearings would fail at high output/high RPM occasionally. The new crank along with stronger rods and pistons allowed them to bump up the redline a couple of hundred RPM. The increased oil flow from the new pump and larger cooler probably helps reduce piston temperatures. Who knows- maybe this would have allowed them to bump up the horsepower rating for the air cooled engines in another year or two if they hadn't been shut down. Hugh does the '08 up engine have a larger oil cooler and lines as well as a larger oil pump? Maybe these areas have enough greater volume that they hold the oil when shut down? Vern- it has a larger oil cooler (8 row vs 6 row IIRC), but the lines are basically the same size. The pump is configured differently and sits even with the end of the camshafts as opposed to below the level of the cam case which apparently allows oil to more easily drain through it back into the bottom of the crankcase. | ||
| Tootal |
It was mentioned on here a while back that you can't check the oil level while running because the oil dumps back right on the dip stick. I found this to be true as I thought my bike didn't use any oil until I pulled the dip stick out while running, wiped it off and then shut the engine off and checked it. I was a quart low. Mine is an 06 but I don't think they changed that on later models. I would put the 2.5 quarts in, ride it for 20 minutes and then park it with it idling and pull the stick and then shut it down and check it. Where it is, is now your full mark. Also check both of the ball checks or PCV valves on the heads and make sure they are clean. The engine should run in a vacuum but if a valve fails it can send oil vapors to the air cleaner. | ||
| Fotoguzzi |
this check is done tipped over on the sidestand right? I never had such a finicky bike for a simple oil level check.. but anyhow I don't seem to be loosing any oil and that's normal on a good runner right? (sorry) maybe dumb ? but it's my first Harley. can't wait for the AX and a lottery win.. | ||
| Uly_man |
"Anyone with real technical experience got any real intelligent thoughts about this?" Yes but I am just a "Drone" and can only do what the Queen says. | ||
| Sagehawk |
I read that story and saw a movie on that, uly_man. pretty cool and totally to the point. English literature is a wonderful thing, entertaining and enlightening at the same time. Thanks for the statement as it made my day, being the fourth and all! By the way, which drone were you? | ||
| Ourdee |
The real final frontier? Those who drink the koolaid -vs- Those who won't drink. And then there is she who drank and imagines a privilege or is weak and lonely, living most miserable of all. But weren't we all assimilated? OH! I found the simplest accurate way to check the oil was to drain it out of the bike and measure it in pyrex. | ||
| Tempest766 |
Mess has been cleaned up and breather tubes have been rerouted to underneath the left foot peg. Interesting, the amount of drip that ends up on the pavement or chunk of cardboard that I park the bike on in the garage. I did notice a distinct improvement in engine performance that I don't think is just psychological or wishful thinking. The thing does seem to have better acceleration and is smoother running. Oh. old hose holes plugged with two each washers for each hole and held in place with lock nuts. Barbed brass T fitting and hose clamps used to join the two old breather tubes and the hose is rerouted over the rear shock and down to the foot peg, ziptied in place. So far the fan hasn't failed due to all the oil that got sucked through it...crossing my fingers. The rerouted breathers never seem to inhale, only exhale. | ||
| Uly_man |
"The rerouted breathers never seem to inhale, only exhale". That is what they should do. Inhale would draw dirty air into the engine. Not good? The air pressure in the crank case/ engine needs to be controlled and this is done via the Pressure Control Valves (PCV). One on top of each rocker cover with a hose to the air box. The PCV relives the air pressure at a certain level. At engine idle you should have little or none but if you rev the engine you should then feel the air coming out of the hose and stop, more or less, once you are back at idle. "I did notice a distinct improvement in engine performance that I don't think is just psychological or wishful thinking. The thing does seem to have better acceleration and is smoother running". You may have a "sticky" rear, or both, PCV causing it to not open at the right air pressure. I do not know this engine very well but if the bottoms of the pots are not joined you would then have higher air pressure on one side than the other. The piston would then be trying to compress air on the return stroke which would then unbalance the engine and sap power. It could also blow the gasket on the rocker cover and leak oil over the back of the head and onto the fan. "So far the fan hasn't failed due to all the oil that got sucked through it". If the fan has oil on it then it needs to be 100% clean or dust will stick to it and it WILL fail sooner or later. You may have to take it off the bike to clean it right. Also check that the rear head cover gasket is not leaking as well. "Interesting, the amount of drip that ends up on the pavement". You should NOT have any serious amounts unless you have something else going on. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I did notice a distinct improvement in engine performance that I don't think is just psychological or wishful thinking. The thing does seem to have better acceleration and is smoother running. Al Lighton, owner of American Sport Bike, says the bike will show something like a 5 HP peak gain with the breathers re-routed. That's pretty healthy. | ||
| Ourdee |
Easiest way to plug the two airbox hole is to take a piece of the hose and shape it like a horse shoe. Then shove each end up through a hole. When the filter is opened up it looks OEM with two short hose nubs sticking out. |
