| Author | Message | ||
     Teeps |
120 watts = between 8 and 10 amps depending on voltage. (12~15v) Danair, Did you measure, calculate or read somewhere, the wattage rating for the fan? | ||
| Paul_regan |
I had experiences similar to etennuly's and I did what he did. But I didn't like the constant red light. So I clipped both wires and now power the fan though a fused hot wire from the battery and a new ground that doesn't feed back to the ECM through a toggle switch i mounted inside the right handguard. No more s/s BUT the red light stayed on anyway. Then I connected the pos and neg wires that used to connect the fan together and no more s/s, no more red light. Until I turned the bike off after a ride - then it blew the fan fuse. Somewhere on this site someone talks about wiring a small resistor between the old pos and neg wires. I did that and now no s/s, no red light, no problems. That was over a year ago. Snce then i've replaced the CPS, installed an EBR ECM and started using AMSOIL and I'm curious to see if the problem would come back if i went back to factory wiring but I just haven't made a decision to do it yet | ||
| Dtaylor |
Danair, it's not clear to me if you've tried the relay yet. If you have, does the relay chatter or otherwise misbehave when the ECM is in low speed mode? I presume the ECM PWMs the ground on low speed. If you haven't set up the relay yet, that might be something to consider/keep an eye open for. | ||
| Reepicheep |
For power calculation, you need to measure both current and voltage. High current but 0 voltage? Zero watts. High voltage but no current? Zero watts. The ECM likely has a MOSFET shorting the other terminal of the fan to ground, so it instantly transitions to 14 volts with no current (fan off) to .1 volts across the ECM or so at X amps. If it's a 2 amp load, that is well under .2 watts in the ECM, to deliver about 30 watts to the fan (about the highest I would expect). That's how I built my heated grip controller. It's amazing how much power you can control (not dissipate) using that strategy. The fan has at least two speeds, but you could still do that by running the ECM MOSFET like a switching regulator, and turning it all on half the time, and all off half the time. It would work about the same (a little more heat because of the on / off transition slopes, but not much). | ||
| Reepicheep |
Cross posted with Dtaylor... PWM is Pulse Width Modulation, which is the "turning it on half the time" thing I reference. If the fan has three wires going to it (never had to pull one), then it might just have different inputs for the two different speeds. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I think the third wire is a tach output for the ECU to read back that it's actually turning. | ||
| Danair |
I didn't measure as it had died already. What I know it it's protected to 10 amps. At 13.5 thats actually 135 watts. I tried a 15 just to get me home....lasted all of a minute. And yes, I have it installed. Coil voltage is 5.to 28v d.c. out of an autopilot. Contacts rated at 15A cont. Used to hold the magnetic clutches for the capstans on the servos. which are engaged any time the ap is on. It has both types in it so if you have to make a slight heading or pitch change you push half way which is the momentary releasing the clutches and spring loaded back re-energizing the clutches. Take your cut and let it go and it holds what you got. Called control wheel steering. Push it all the way and it unlatches the system relay, releasing the clutches, capstans, and rest of system. There's also input pins that unlatch it if you put force on the controls without pressing cws, the trim motors are exerting too much force, or if you no shit really need the darned thing. | ||
| Teeps |
Fickle-fickle Ulysses... Road the beast nearly 200 miles today. The bike ran perfectly. The ride included over 100 miles continuous operation, from sea level to about 5000 feet, it didn't skip a beat all day. I'm taking it out Sunday on a similar ride, we'll see how it goes. | ||
| Teeps |
A bit of insight when buying after market fuses BEWARE! A few years back, it was discovered that fuses made in china were not of the correct rating. That is, a fuse rated at 7.5 amps, took close to 40 amps to fail! 10, 15 & 20 amp fuse ratings from the same source did not fail at the indicated amperage, either, but at 2 to 4 times the rating. | ||
| Dtaylor |
Reep and Nate: the fan has only two wires going to it (at least mine does). The wiring diagram shows pins 2 & 3 each as fan control (grey ECU connector), with those wires from those pins merging on their way to the fan. (Message edited by dtaylor on June 13, 2014) | ||
| Etennuly |
Well.....SEE.....I told you guys you are smarter than me! I have no idea what language is spoken in the above posts(some Latin electro engineering shit I'm sure). Is all of that about making the CEL turn off with the manual fan operation and getting back to a normal two speed operation? I'm going to stick with my 'I can live with it' manual switching because the bike is happier than ever running this way, and I cannot afford or have time for an electronics engineering college degree. The way the fan is now set up on my Uly I have full confidence in the bike running great and not letting me down, ruining rides because of this problem. That light, and manually switching the fan lets ME maintain control over the problem. | ||
| Teeps |
Etennuly, Connecting a 12v LED light to the ground wire going to the ECM, from the fan (control wire) will turn the CEL off, as was mentioned in the above post concerning the "LED" equipped fuse that was blown. Connect a LED to the wire coming from the fan to your fan switch. Connect the other end of the LED to the abandoned fan control wire going to the ECM. That should really make you happy. | ||
| Xbimmer |
So now that my O2 sensor issue has been fixed it seems (no codes thrown all week!), I want to try this fan ECM-bypass as diagrammed by Teeps. So what relay should I use? Also, being electron-wizardly challenged along with Etenn, I'm not understanding all youz guys conversation here but I like reading it anyway.  | ||
| Teeps |
Any single pole relay rated for 10 or more amps across the switch. 12V across the activation coil. The switch should be off when the coil side is not energized. My freehand schematic on the first page is drawn in the "off" position. Take the schematic to an old school electronics shop. Tell them the nominal voltage is 12v and the fan fuse is rated for 10 amps. They should be able to fix you up. Dean, If you want to make a trip to Torrance. There are 2 good electronics store close by; I have the needed tools. Easier, is to do the Etennuly mod (simple on/off switch) and, add an LED as I described to cancel the CEL. | ||
| Etennuly |
Do you mean like a little mini flash light type LED? If I make it to Radio Shack is there any spec I should look for? Wait a minute.....I have the fan operating on a toggle switch, the switch's blade handle has a little unused light in it. If I hooked that up in place of the LED would it work to turn of the CEL? | ||
| Teeps |
Can you post a photo of the switch? You can email a photo to me too. (Message edited by teeps on June 13, 2014) | ||
| Etennuly |
This is the switch for my heated gear. Switch on - light on. The fan switch is right beside this one(not there when this picture was taken) it has a green light that is not hooked up. It is a regular plastic type toggle switch with the light, I put a water proof boot on it. I can't show the back side it is all wrapped and sealed.   | ||
| Danair |
re: I can live with the light. Will it enunciate other faults in this mode? | ||
| Etennuly |
If any new codes come up it will flash. | ||
| Teeps |
Etennuly Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2014 - If any new codes come up it will flash. Adding the LED (as mentioned above) creates a complete circuit the ECM is looking for. The behavior of the ECM, in the event of a real trouble code, would be normal. So, the CEL would turn on if another fault were present. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Well crud... was going to head north today to have Dad's Day breakfast at the Rock Store with my kids. Yesterday's shakedown run was great, until the 25 mile mark. Damned SS, but at least no codes. This morning the idle cable was resisting while backing it out to do a TPS-0 and then it snapped, probably the reason I had a hunting idle when hot. Looks like it's yard work the rest of the day.  Hope your Wrightwood run fared better Teeps! | ||
| Etennuly |
Xbimmer, That is exactly the crap I put up with for two and a half years! I had that SOB fixed at least ten times.....for a while. Then the fan switch and walla! Great times have been back! It was the only thing that fixed it for more than a hundred miles of temps above 70F and speeds above 60mph. No codes is normal for a overheat event. It is a non event as far as the ECM is concerned - it got hot - went to ss - it did what it was supposed to do to cool it back down. THAT hair pulling frustration is exactly why I have had no problem carrying on with the red light activated. Manual fan switching.....      | ||
| Teeps |
Didn't make it to Wrightwood, but did ride to Rock Store Sunday. Uly didn't (spark) skip a beat. | ||
| Teeps |
Appears I've been grossly over thinking the Etennuly's switch mod as related to the CEL problem. If you're only interested in manual fan control. All that's needed is a parallel path to ground, through a switch, on the fan control wire. When the switch is off (open.) The ECM controls the fan, the 2 speed cool down operation is retained, when IG is turned off. When the switch is on (closed.) The fan runs at WOT... | ||
| Xbimmer |
Update, to be verified today hopefully. Ordered a new ETS and throttle adjust cable from Al American Sport Bike (thanks AGAIN Al for having Buell parts in stock!) and installed them without drama. The new ETS has a different connector and slightly longer lead which worked well with my harness bypass lead. Buttoned it all back up Wednesday and went for a ride. Everything great until the 10-mile mark on the freeway. Light came on and stayed on for 10 miles until I exited, but no SS. Made a stop for spider food and on the way back on the freeway SS again...  ECM Spy told me the O2 sensor was "inactive or open" again. Decided to shoot/kill/burn the bike, or part it out, or push it off Grimes Canyon Road, then not. Before work Thursday I started on desoldering my old ECM and got an idea. Went over to the MoneyPit and pulled both ECM connectors off and shot some CRC electronics cleaner into the sockets and pins. Now it gets interesting. In the 80's and stop and go for 9 miles to work, fan never came on until I shut down the bike. On the way home that evening, fan never came on til I shut down the bike. Ran great the whole time. Fan came on briefly yesterday on the way to work but I had made a couple stops before, and last night on the way home took the freeway for 5 miles at 80mph, fan was on at exit but no SS or CEL. Next stop, build a fatter ground lead from the ECM and then the fan bypass mod as described above. Will advise. | ||
| Teeps |
^^^^^^^^^ Interesting. I made the ride to Wrightwood yesterday morning. Uly was happy, happy, happy, all the way there, but about 25 miles from home. On the 405 near the Roscoe exit... Yes, yes SS started again. Prior to that the CEL was also on steady, I suspect the O2 code, as it has done this off and on for several years. I will be adding a switched ground (in parallel) for the fan. So, during the next SS event, I can, flip the switch and isolate the fan's ground from the ECM. | ||
| Xbimmer |
SS after a great ride is just awesome, isn't it Teeps? I like your idea to parallel the control wire to the ECM and ground the power through the fan so I'll try that first. Just got back from my 35 mile test ride. Not one CEL or SS. It was 90 deg+ here this afternoon, rode it the freeway 15 miles to Chaparral and let it heat-soak for about 20 minutes while I looked at bikes I don't want. When I started it the idle started to slow but I left it alone and it settled down. Ran another 10 miles freeway at 80+ to the hardware store, still no issues and it ran great. Rode the final 10 miles city/freeway and everything behaved great. I'm suspicious. I've had my hopes dashed on the rocks enough with this to not be satisfied so let's see. I did too many things at once this last time to know which may have helped: removed the oil cooler scoop, cleaned the ECM connections, reset the TPS, loosened the ziptie securing the bundle at the gray connector (I'd read on the internet recently so it must be true that a single wire O2 sensor "breathes" through the wire so I thought maybe it was too tight). Gonna try to leave for work earlier tomorrow and get some more miles on it. | ||
| Teeps |
Yes there is nothing like a bout of SS after 170 miles of trouble free riding. On another note: Last week, I came close to trading the Uly for a 2014 Honda NC700x. Until a friend let me ride his... Nice bike, smooth, sooo smooth, super slick 6spd gear box, reported 70MPG, cruise rpm at 80MPH about 4k rpm. But with, only 51HP, 472lbs, the 60" space between the axles, sub standard suspension, really funky steering, makes it no go for me. Darn Uly, warts and all, it's a hard bike to quit... | ||
| Etennuly |
 This is almost fun to watch. BTDT! many many times. Cut the blue wire, hook up to switch, quit looking to purchase other bikes  , be confident in permagrin again. Bike runs cooler and better running the fan all of the time when the temps are above 60F. From there down there is little need to turn it on unless sitting still a long time or on a long steep hill. | ||
| Teeps |
Etenn, I've had the Ulysses, since May 2006, and it is the longest I've ever owned a bike. Could very well be my last... Far as SS and fan. I'm not doubting your "fix"; I'm trying to understand why it's happening, if not caused by faulty parts or wiring. Does your bike still have the original fan? (Message edited by teeps on June 23, 2014) |
