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Buell Forum » Big, Bad & Dirty (Buell XB12X Ulysses Adventure Board) » BB&D Archives » Archive through April 01, 2014 » My Uly's going in for rocker head gaskets. Anything else? « Previous Next »

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Buellerxt
Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2014 - 02:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My perfectly running 2008XT with 28,500 miles is going in soon to have the rocker head gaskets changed under extended warranty. I'm going to have the plugs changed for the first time while it's in. I'm also considering having the intake seals replaced, sight unseen. With age and a lot of heating/cooling it seems prudent to do it as preventative maintenance. I'm also considering having the PCV valve replaced for the same reason. They'll also check the fan while there. Anything else you recommend? Plug wires?
The bike runs as good as new and always has. Other than a tiny, but fatal, mechanical problem with a fuse I've never had an issue. Yep, I got the 2010 wheel early on. : ) All input appreciated.
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Tankhead
Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2014 - 03:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What were the symptoms for getting rocker box gaskets changed? For the life of me I can not figure out were a quart of oil goes. Overfilled before ride Saturday. Had to use turkey baster. Four XXXX up the dip stick. Came home after 150 miles and checked immediately. Zero oil on stick. I have tried every method. Engine on running. Shut off but hot. Color me confused.....
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Buellerxt
Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2014 - 04:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I haven't had that oil problem, Tankhead. The 'symtom' for the need of new gaskets are slowly seeping front and rear gaskets that have been seeping for some time.
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Etennuly
Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2014 - 05:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I would have them closely check the front engine isolator for cracks in the rubber webbing.

Pay attention to the gap under the large mount bolt head, take a picture before and after. Many folks have ridden many miles with vibrations that were unnecessary due to the isolator slowly failing.

Intake seals are a good idea, check for carbon build up in the intake runners.
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7873jake
Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2014 - 06:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

In the process of doing this right now, in the garage, on the stand, engine rotated down.

Was surprised to find that the rear shifter side rocker box cover bolt was so loose that I unscrewed it with my fingers. Got the engine dropped (rotated) and just thought "lemme see if I can get my hand in there". Did, and found the allen bolt was, uhmmm, loose. All others were tight.

Check the O2 sensor wire for chafe as well as the cyl head temp sensor wire. Ditto on the idle adjustment doohickey that connects to the throttle body. The outer jacket of mine was disintegrating and the inner shaft was rusting, leaving crud all over the rocker box cover of my front cylinder.

I have a question about the installation of the Cometic base gasket for the rocker box I'll put in a different thread.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2014 - 09:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Tankhead, what oil are you using?

I had an XB9SX that would use oil pretty fast when I used Castrol full synthetic 20w50, and REALLY fast with Castrol Full Synthetic 0w50. But put a more expensive 20w50, and it go 3000 miles burning less than 1/4 quart.
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Tankhead
Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2014 - 10:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Unfortunately have used amsoil and harley syn, whatever. I'm just about done with this bike.
Really has been one let down after another.
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Tootal
Posted on Monday, March 17, 2014 - 01:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Mine is using oil too. I thought I was doing well until someone on here explained that you can't check the oil while running because the return line dumps it right on the dipstick giving you a false reading!! Thanks to whoever that was!!

After reading that I took a half hour ride and came back to the garage and let it idle while I pulled the dipstick. I wiped it off and shut the motor off and took a reading. Nothing on the stick!! It took 1.5 quarts to get back to XX. That was scary. That was using 60wt. Amsoil. I can hear all the piston slap in this engine even though it runs fine. It doesn't smoke or leak but it's got to be slowly burning it. I'm rebuilding the Geezer Glide this Winter. Maybe I'll freshen up the Uly next year. Some properly honed cylinders and some new Wiseco's might fix that oil consumption!
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Uly_man
Posted on Monday, March 17, 2014 - 01:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"For the life of me I can not figure out were a quart of oil goes. Overfilled before ride Saturday. Had to use turkey baster. Four XXXX up the dip stick". DO NOT fill to XXXX cold. Run the bike to temp THEN fill to XXXX. Run it again and re-check and all is done with/ on the side stand down.

One US Quart is 0.94 Liter. The whole dry sump system is only 2.5 Qt/ 2.4 L from a dry engine. The bike WILL use a little oil and depends on oil type, miles, riding style, etc. Some engines can use more or less oil, even on the same engine/ bike-to-bike, depending on how it was run in. The XB engine needs 5k miles to run in well. Something people are not always patient enough to do these days.

Measure the oil level correctly, check for leaks, blue smoke, etc. As a rough estimate I use about 100 ml per 1000 miles on a engine with 6k miles plus and a little more on a newer engine. But that is a VERY rough guide and from past memory. Good luck.
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Uly_man
Posted on Monday, March 17, 2014 - 02:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I know people like to use fully synth and none 20w50 oils but I see no need for these. 20w50 oil was DESIGNED specifically for this type of engine and part synth is good enough. And I ride in a country with 0 C all the time with no need for anything but a good 20w50 oil.

"I can hear all the piston slap in this engine". That is just NUTS and you will trash your engine sooner or later. An air/ oil cooled engine is NOTHING like a water cooled one. Treat it as such.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Monday, March 17, 2014 - 02:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

An air/ oil cooled engine is NOTHING like a water cooled one. Treat it as such.




That's precisely why I use a premium full synthetic 20w50. When everything is perfect non synthetic is already right on the edge of a total breakdown temp. So if something is just a little bit wrong.. : (
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Uly_man
Posted on Monday, March 17, 2014 - 03:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"So if something is just a little bit wrong.." What would that be then? I agree if the ambient air temp went over 35 C for any length, like all day, of time though.

I sometimes think that there is way to much "over analyzing" of this bike and of what some think are "fair miles" on its parts. No two bikes are the same let alone a comparison between brands/ types. It is not a car, aircraft or anything else. Bike parts, for those who do not know, wear VERY fast due to the nature of bikes. Take it or leave it but it is still a FACT.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Monday, March 17, 2014 - 04:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Bad gas, minor intake leak, minor timing problem, intermittent sensor, out of calibration TPS, post ride heat soak, dirty air filter, low oil volume, missed change interval.

I unfortunately do not have the link, but a long time ago on the Internet somebody with a water cooled Honda and access to a lab did a very good analysis of how the viscosity broke down over time.

In a MUCH less demanding environment than an air cooled Buell, his non synthetic oil showed substantial loss of viscosity in 1500 miles. Full synthetic was starting to break down at 3000 miles. (from memory)

That was a wake up call for me.

I was never impressed with any arbitrary artificial "made up" tests like the Amsoil 3 ball test. But "run the motorcycle and watch the oil die" testing got my attention.
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Tootal
Posted on Monday, March 17, 2014 - 08:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"I can hear all the piston slap in this engine". That is just NUTS and you will trash your engine sooner or later. An air/ oil cooled engine is NOTHING like a water cooled one. Treat it as such.

Sometimes I think the English to, as the German's say, Americanish translation leaves something to be desired. Hearing piston slap does not mean the demise of an engine. It's just that the bore is a bit larger than needed for the piston. I've had many air cooled dirt bikes with some piston slap that have never broken. It's not a good thing, that's why I'd like to fix it, but unless it's really bad it'll still run for a long time. All I need to do is keep a better eye on the oil level.
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Sagehawk
Posted on Monday, March 17, 2014 - 11:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

On a lighter note Tootal, I heard a bike with cylinder slap once. Fam and i were working a checkpoint on a 3 hr hare scrambles in the early eighties. Heard this guy waaay before he came in to the check point. He was riding a can am 175 with the rotary valve intake. 4 cylinder nuts had backed off, one was gone and other three were almost off the studs. I loaned him a 13 mm wrench to tighten the three nuts up and away he rode. Not so fast tho. He had sucked so much dirt in , i can't imagine the damage to that motor. I mean the cylinder was slamming up and down with the piston. I still remember that gosh awful noise but it was also funny as hell. I started thinking of the can ams in a different light as they built a pretty tough motor to still be running.
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Tankhead
Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2014 - 06:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

DO NOT fill to XXXX cold. Run the bike to temp THEN fill to XXXX. Run it again and re-check and all is done with/ on the side stand down.

Yes I know. The bike was warm, on side stand and on level surface. Dip stick showed oil on the "A" on ADD 150ML. I added less than a quart and the level went up to almost overflowing. My wife ran in to get the turkey baster. I brought it down to the XXXX and went on a ride. 150 miles back down to the "A" on ADD 150 ML. My bike has 18000 miles and had this problems since I bought it four and half years ago. I have checked cold and it shows the same thing. "A" on the ADD 150 ml.
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Tootal
Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2014 - 09:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

On a lighter note Tootal, I heard a bike with cylinder slap once. Fam and i were working a checkpoint on a 3 hr hare scrambles in the early eighties. Heard this guy waaay before he came in to the check point. He was riding a can am 175 with the rotary valve intake. 4 cylinder nuts had backed off, one was gone and other three were almost off the studs. I loaned him a 13 mm wrench to tighten the three nuts up and away he rode. Not so fast tho. He had sucked so much dirt in , i can't imagine the damage to that motor. I mean the cylinder was slamming up and down with the piston. I still remember that gosh awful noise but it was also funny as hell. I started thinking of the can ams in a different light as they built a pretty tough motor to still be running.

Now that's funny!
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Sagehawk
Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2014 - 01:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You stay in the woods long enough and you'll see most anything Tootal. It will come to you. Ditto on checking oil level with motor running as I've tried several suggestion and it almost has come back to stop from ride, let motor idle bout 10-15 seconds pulling stick, kill motor and check level. Stick around xx marks and all is well.
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Uly_man
Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2014 - 02:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ok so do a cylinder compression test. It is easy and cheap to do. But I can tell you this?
This engine DOES NOT have any cylinder "slap" that I can hear even with the standard can, which is very quite, even from stone cold.
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Xbimmer
Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2014 - 02:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You might just change the O2 sensor while your in there, I think 30K is the limit. Maybe some heat barrier for the inside of the frame rails?
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Buewulf
Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2014 - 03:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"This engine DOES NOT have any cylinder "slap""

I don't think he means that excessive slap is an issue with the XB engine - just HIS engine.
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Sagehawk
Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2014 - 03:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think its time to have a bit of Yukon jack, a good cigar, and a old time knee slapping laugh! Anyone with me?
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Uly_man
Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2014 - 03:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

ANY TIME, Sir.
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Etennuly
Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2014 - 05:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Has this become an oil thread????

Thoughts on oil are like opinions and assholes, everybody has one! Oh.....and mine is always the right one!

My inner brain's oil light was lit by a situation with my former, then new, '05 City-X. I switched from HD 'by the book' non syn oils to Mobil 1 20-50 at 7500 miles, in the summer months. On a 500 mile ride I lost 2 quarts of oil, no smoke, no leaks, the red light coming on as I pulled into my driveway.

I took it back to HD for a look. They wanted to tear down my otherwise perfectly running engine. I decided not to do that. I changed the oil back to what the manual asked for and never used any oil at any subsequent oil change interval of 2500 miles. The oil is meant to be sacrificial. It breaks down and gets contaminated. Change it and start over for another 2500 to 3000 miles.

I have found that many Buell engines sound like a bag of marbles in a dryer with full syn oils. Changing to non syn, weights by the book, cured the rattling, clacking, tapping noises and oil loss on the bikes I have dealt with.

I'm sticking with my plan 'cause it is right for me. 60,000+ miles '06 Uly that sounds and runs great, and it still does not use or loose oil. The only leak so far is the clutch cable o ring.
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Tootal
Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2014 - 06:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I agree with you Vern, conventional oil will hide sound better but all that "noise" is still going on, it's just muffled better.

My brother picked up a used 09 recently and his engine is a lot quieter than mine. I have an August 05 build date and it's sounded the same since I bought it new. I did a compression check when I changed the plugs last time and I don't remember the numbers but I do remember they were within 5 psi of each other so no worries there!

I've built several air cooled V-twins and if you use torque plates and hone them correctly they will not use hardly any oil. My Harley gets 5000 mile changes with Amsoil 20-50 and the dipstick looks good till the day it's changed. Production engines are usually not set up as well.

As far as some Jack and a stogie, come on over, it's 60 and sunshine today!!
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