| Author | Message | ||
     Octopusenvy |
Was hoping I wouldn't fall into the unfortunate category of Buellers who experienced stuttering/hesitating/stalling, but with significant mod changes, I guess I asked for it! I ride an XP Uly, love it, and put full micron plus mapping on the stock ECM (no micron maps aside from Xopti which I tried but didn't work for NZ climate). I also have open airbox, k&n, NGK iridium 9iex plugs and all of that is near new (less than 7months since fitted). Anyhow, i've gone thru checking valve intakes (no leaking), exhaust system (no leaks), plugs (no fouling), tps resets (can't get bike to idle now...seems getting worse), and idle stepper cleanout and adjustment (mechanic). I've spent only 150bux, but don't want to spend heaps more. I am getting the TPS error code 11, so perhaps its as simple as replacing the TPS. I'll pay 85USD for one from Autozone with free USA shipping (then have family send it over cheaply to NZ), but really hoping that fixes the issue. Otherwise its dyno-tune time and that is pretty dear plus nowhere near where I live. As for the mapping, a guy who owns the dynotune and an 06 Uly did my fuel mapping. He did it on another XB12 with full micron (only other one in NZ I think) and I rode that b4 using him...map was really good! I got my maps done and went on a tour for 3weeks and the bike rode pretty well. This new TPS issue only suddenly happened. It wasn't gradual. First place I noticed was at lower idle doing about 35miles (50kph), then it died on me a couple times at low idle about 2miles from where I first noticed. That's as far as I needed to go, but in the morning I rode another 50miles on the bike and it would miss a bit at steady 100kph (65mph). I was riding to work and decided to get the bike straight to the shop...where it has now been for a month Other vital info...I run a Gammatronix 12v LED battery indicator and it never flinched from Green. battery is good, resistance is also good on starter etc. Thanks in advance for any help guys | ||
| Kaikoura |
Hopefully easy rider can answer this. Aka Twin Cycles. It's got to be an easy fix. | ||
| Kaikoura |
http://www.twinmotorcycles.nl/index.asp | ||
| Uly_man |
Get a cable and ECM-SPY or Tuner PRO. Cheap enough and a good thing to have. It will show most problems on a logged run or other. Trust me its the best thing you will ever buy for a Buell. | ||
| Pontlee77 |
XP isen't a 2008 model? the Micron maps for a 2006 or 2007 wont work on a 2008 due to the different ecm. | ||
| Ratbuell |
According to his profile the XP is a **10**. TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER XB. The '10 added a second O2 sensor, among other changes/evolutions in the programming. Just reading the original post...it sounds like it ran fine (personally I'd leave stock plugs in it but that's just me), then the idle dropped, then he tried a bunch of TPS resets. I assume you're doing the resets HOT. But that's beside the point. Idle drop out of nowhere tells me you have a clogged AIS motor - Air Idle Speed. It's a plunger valve that allows the bike to idle by opening/closing itself to bleed air past the closed throttle plate. If that is ganked up or plugged with carbon (happens all the time on my modified turbo Dodges), it doesn't "breathe" properly. Running TPS resets to try and cure that problem can throw your TPS out of whack...and generate a code. Pull the AIS. Clean the plunger. Clean its socket. See if that helps any. | ||
| Octopusenvy |
Thanks all, much appreciated and so quickly! Just to clarify, my XP is a 2009, so only 1 O2 sensor. But I've got the 2010 wheels and a trickle charge plug so its basically a 2010 minus the front 02 sensor. I've got TunerproRT and I'm now waiting on a new plug, since I think the old plug is buggered. I just plug it in to the diagnostics plug on the bike and it immediately starts throwing codes on the CEL. So once I can connect, I'll see what is showing. Kaikoura, cheers I did speak to Dris a little online. He said go back to stock plugs, also said do TPS with 10sec intervals on the throttle (08+), but didn't work. I've only attempted 2 tps resets, and they were NOT HOT because the bike won't idle long enough to get warmed up. I've also swapped ECM (stock mapped for basic stock) and both do the same thing so my mapped ECM must be fine. Ratbuell, thanks for the tip on the AIS, I think that is possible. Cleaned the idle stepper out and it was pretty gunky, so fair chance the AIS may need a clean and has thrown the TPS out of whack. I'll get on that next week once I get back to the bike and post an update. Much appreciated everyone! Any other suggestions, please keep them coming and I do hope it is a simple fix! | ||
| Ratbuell |
basically a 2010 minus the front 02 sensor. To quote a famous (infamous?) Bueller - "that's not entirely accurate". Lots more EFI differences than just an O2 sensor from 09-10. But, a nonissue since an 09 will be infinitely more likely to get a good map from someone who recalibrates Buells. He said go back to stock plugs Hmm...where have I heard that before....? 10R12X, gapped properly, should last you easily for 10,000 miles a set. To reset the TPS hot, you don't have to let it idle. Hold the throttle open with your hand and run it for a good five minutes, even if you're revving it up and down. A TPS reset WILL NOT BE RIGHT if you do it cold. Period. Does TunerPro throw random codes on both ECM's? Or just the remapped one? Might not be the plug... Methodical steps, one change at a time, follow an organized plan and you'll find it. | ||
| Uly_man |
"Methodical steps, one change at a time, follow an organized plan and you'll find it". Very true and the ONLY way to do it. Diving in at the wrong end will just confuse the issue. Octopusenvy. You do not say that you have checked the wiring on the bike. Many an issue is caused by damaged/ rubbed wires on this bike. The main ones are the those that run over the rear cylinder head as they rub through the insulation and "short out" on the head and/ or frame. They have most of the wires from the engine IE 02 sensor, injectors, IAT, TPS, etc. I had it on my 10 bike even though it has a plastic duct but happened because of bad fitting from the factory. On a 09 bike the sub-frame Earth issue has been fixed but check anyway. In fact check EVERY wire on the bike for damage including those that go into the ECM. It is a MUST DO THING FIRST on these bikes. And my 10 bike had a "half cut" wire on the ECM which could NOT have happened by accident. So check, check and check until you are 100% sure all is well before moving on to the next point. The diagnostic lead should do NOTHING to the CEL once it is plugged in even if it is connected to a laptop/ computer. This is a little worrying? Either it is wired up wrong or there is something wrong with the USBs plug/ chip. How did you come by the lead? How did you find out it was a TPS code 11? Oh and the Micron was made for the 06 bikes and went bust ages ago. It should work with the right set up though. Good luck. | ||
| Kaikoura |
Section 4.4 of the 2008 XB service manual makes no mention of hot or cold engine for TPS reset..appears to be a simple key on/off procedure.. EBR racing tells me the 08 and up the TPS is controlled by the ECM automatically.. I bought their CMI Lite diagnostic tool..havent been able to use it yet.. It will be handy for reset of the 1999 X1.. Just my 2 cents worth of info.. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
"TPS is controlled by the ECM automatically" No, you misread that. The Throttle Position Sensor is still controlled by the rider's right hand but the zeroing of the sensor can be done without external computers or dongles. It still needs to be done on occasion but it's no longer a big deal involving dealerships and bat-computers. The reason for this is the throttle is allowed to close all the way on 2008-up bikes. All air for idling is handled by a small bypass controlled by servo. Older bikes needed an idle stop screw that held the main butterfly open a tiny amount. | ||
| Kaikoura |
Check out this tool from EBR racing..no need for ECM spy http://www.erikbuellracing.com/store/parts-accesso ries/fuel-injection/cmi-lite-diagnostic-tool.html | ||
| Octopusenvy |
Again, wise advice from you all. Rat, you are correct about 2010 vs 2009 differences. Obviously you have to do some added different calibrations and computing when you go from a single O2 sensor to two of them. The rest of the makeup between my bike and the 2010 is the same, but I am happy to call it a 2009 with 2010 wheels (the best upgrade anyway). As for wiring Uly_man, there is a lot, but I did give all of it a very good once over. The steering head wiring has the plastic protector over it, and its not even scuffed, but I did take it off just to inspect. Leads into the ECM look fine also on very close inspection. As for the looms, I'll have a 3rd look  I think my cable is bunk because it was recently given to me and its quite old. So old that it had the serial pin connection, so I had to get a serial to USB cable. I've heard that connection is crap, which is why they went to USB. Since I have used a USB in the past, this cable was new and I assumed it worked. I have the same USB I've used b4 on its way now so should be more straightforward. I think there was a short in the cable, which is why it was throwing CEL flashing codes when it was plugged into the bike only. It acted like the little plug end u can get from American Sport Bike, rather than a diagnostic link! Interestingly, the spare ECM did not pick up the codes 11, 13, 15 (tps, 02 sensor, intake air temp) that my original ECM was throwing. Remembering the 02 sensor was off as was the intake sensor plug when the first attempt to get codes was done, so those are historical. The new ECM only threw 21 (interactive exhaust), which could have been from its previous life or it read that mine was gone? Either way, the newer ECM did NOT pick up the other codes...but the bike only ran rough for about a minute which I think is not long enough to collect data. Hopefully today I'll clean the AIS as Rat suggested. Then wait for the cable and get to work. I have the original plugs that I pulled out, but as I don't think that is the problem (iridiums looking brand new and dry) I'll stick with the NGK especially since I have a few performance mods. Will update shortly, thanks again for ideas & suggestions everyone. | ||
| Octopusenvy |
Short update...cleaned AIS (Air Intake Speed) motor. Still have same issue. Waiting now on new diagnostic cable to have a look at whats going on in TunerproRT. Was hoping AIS was the problem...sounded possible. Was dirty in there, but clean now and still the same. | ||
| Octopusenvy |
I've now seen a few others recently come up with the same issue or similar symptoms. I installed an EBR ECM and although the problem seems to be in there still, the EBR ECM could be heard correcting the issue and smoothing out the running. I have been away overseas riding Europe on a 660, and can't wait to get back on my Uly. So back into it. My local mate/mechanic who owns a shop has a new Dyno arriving shortly, so perhaps if its a fueling or maps issue, we can get rid of it. I have a custom map on that worked for 2months sweet b4 my issues, and was done here (cost a bit tho, $200USD!). So something else to try. | ||
| Octopusenvy |
I may not need to try anything! The EBR ECM is really amazing. I heard it run the bike, figure out the issue, then systematically correct it and run smooth as butter. Another big ride and confirmed the EBR ECM has solved my issue. It has LEARNED the fuel values for my full Micron! Runs just as good as my custom fuel maps did on the stock ECM. Dyno is still an option soon, but wow. I have the plastic block to protect the mounting of the ECM, but i think pressure from rider does effect things. Relocation is ideal b4 u have issues, as even if no cracks, the pressure on the cables could be causing issues. Here's to lots more trouble-free riding! |
