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Nateba
Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 03:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey all. I've been checking out other bike options at the moment because the Uly isn't cutting it for my short trip, on-off style commuting. Rather than do it more harm (and tired of dealing with problems), I've been contemplating either adding an FZ-09 and keeping the XB around, or trading the Uly in on the FZ and taking a beating. An XB9SX just popped up in my area (2008, 8000 miles) and it got me wondering if the smaller engine size would be able to handle the short trips better than the ULY.

I know air-cooled engines and trips not long enough to warm up aren't a good combination, but can the 9's handle it better than the 12s? I'm still kind of sold on the FZ, but I've never tried out the smaller XBs. Realistically, I should just go back to bicycle commuting for my short commute, but I've been lazy.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 03:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Actually, for short trips, air cooled bikes are better. An air cooled bike comes up to temp much faster than a water cooled bike, so you are much less likely to rot exhaust systems.

I had a 9sx before I got my Uly. I'd say the 9sx is a more durable motor, probably the best motor Harley ever built for Buell. A little worse fuel economy, and a much small bike front to back. I had plenty of room on both, but at 6'2 and overweight, I look silly on the 9sx. I sure loved riding it though.

Pick the one you like, both a uly and a 9sx would work great.
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Froggy
Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 04:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The 9 won't help you. The only difference is less displacement, it still needs to be warmed up and doesn't like short trips. You will see similar issues (but not as extreme) with a watered cooled motorcycle, as in general gasoline vehicles (including cars) don't like quick short runs.

I recommend getting a scooter or an electric motorcycle, they handle short commutes the best.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 04:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Less displacement and more revs, and a motor that can handle sustained high revs much better.

Not that this fact is particularly relevant for commuting.

I think a 9sx is fine for short trips. I put 33k miles on one, lots of which was hop on the bike and ride a mile to Home Depot. Never fouled a plug, never had a problem, runs great warm or cold.

I do agree with Frank that a Zero Dual sport would be *killer* for the problem you are trying to solve.
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Uly_man
Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 04:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

All I can say is that I have been running my 06 and 10 bikes on short 10 to 15 mile, about 15k miles, commuting runs for 7 years now with now problems due to that.
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Nateba
Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 04:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks for the input guys. That sounds about right. I've had smaller (and larger-TL1000) water-cooled twins that have done well with short trips without problems. I know the scooter or electric bikes are the rational options, but I'm looking for more of the best compromise than the best fit.
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Nateba
Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 04:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The Zeros do look pretty rad. I've never had an opportunity to test-ride one, but they're a little out of my price range unfortunately. Portland has plenty of charging stations, so I imagine this would be the city to own one.
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Uly_man
Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 04:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ok so how far do you go then?
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 04:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I can't wait to see if the AX will inherit from the Leap. That would be *so* cool, and if was a good hybrid it would change a $15k motorcyle from "out of my budget" to "worth stretching for".
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Nateba
Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 05:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My commute is about 5 miles, but on days with heavy traffic, I can barely get out of 2nd. I used to be a cycle commuter but royally screwed up my knees running the marathon last year. Ever since Ive been taking the cycle everywhere (sold my car last year when I bought the Uly.) I do take it out and let it rip on the weekends, but the short trips seem to not be kind to the bike.
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Nateba
Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 05:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The Zeros wouldn't be as much out of budget if they weren't still so limited in range.
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Uly_man
Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 05:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

5 miles is not enough on ANY big bike. If you want a powered machine for that distance you may as well get a 250 cc machine. Better still might be a scooter or a C90. Or walk?
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Shagg1970
Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 05:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ok I have been reading posts on here for years and don't get the short trip issue. I have owned my Uly since new in 2006 and when I got it it had fouled plugs at the dealer. as soon as I got home I put in the Irridium plugs and has been good since.

I work two miles from home. I start the bike as I am getting geared up and/or smoke a cig, then ride to work keeping the RPMs at or above 3k then park it, do the same thing and ride home. Take it out on the weekends and beat the snot out of it and all has been well never a fouled plug. ???
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Buewulf
Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 06:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

From my experience with the bikes I have owned, all of my water-cooled bikes have come to temp quicker than all of my air-cooled bikes, particularly in colder weather regardless of displacement, cylinder configuration or any other other difference.

That said, I'd bet your issues may be more related to Buell quirks rather than air vs. water cooling.
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Fltwistygirl
Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 07:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"The Zeros do look pretty rad. I've never had in an opportunity to test-ride one, but they're a little out of my price range unfortunately. Portland has plenty of charging stations, so I imagine this would be the city to own one."

I would not write off the idea of a zero as a commuter bike. We used the small ones, IIRC the S model, for training bikes in FL and if I had the then 5K they were asking for one, plus room in the garage, the Ulys may have had an electric stable mate. They would generally hold enough charge for two days on the training range, but we would put them on the charger overnight because no one wants to be the coach having a student switch bikes at eval time because there was no charge.

The only complaint I had was the seat was a little hard, much like a dirtbike.

I have not priced a used model, but you maybe able to find a deal.

Good luck!
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Etennuly
Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 07:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If you warm the engine for about five minutes then ride to work or back, it should do fine, as long as you hit it with a longer ride on weekends to keep it from loading up. I have found it prudent to find a twenty mile route to go five miles out.

I had a 2005 City-X, it was great in all respects for commuting until I put the race pipe and ECM in it. Then it hated cold starts and short trips. It had closer up pegs and more upper body weight on the bars that made me uncomfortable on rides over 100 miles. With no hard bags to fit up on the City-X, the Uly came on the market with me in mind.

I kept my City-X for four months after I got the Uly. Once I determined I wasn't going back I had no problem selling it from the point of lack of use. I really enjoyed that bike, but then I REALLY enjoy the Uly.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 10:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

$5k for Zero DS's? They would sell well at that price point. Cool that they are using them for the MSF, what a perfect application for them.
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Fltwistygirl
Posted on Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 11:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"$5k for Zero DS's? They would sell well at that price point."

I believe they sold pretty well, although some people were a little hesitant to buy because the technology was fairly new. I want to say it was the S model the dealer was selling for 5K.




"Cool that they are using them for the MSF, what a perfect application for them."

It was a perfect application. I felt like they were so much more comfortable for students in the FL heat because they do not throw off the type of heat that gasoline engines do. The lady I worked for in FL was very forward thinking and that school was one of two at the time that the MSF approved to use the zeros. It was exciting to be on the cutting edge of the new technology. She later pulled the plug on the dealership portion of the business, and stopped using the zeros for the classes. It was a sad day indeed, but we fully understood her family's decision to seek out a better work-life balance.

Here's a pic of the ones that were selling for 5K:





zero s
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Electraglider_1997
Posted on Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 01:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've mentioned the Zero's for the BRC but they say since there is no clutch it is not going to happen here in Nebraska. That is a shame since it would turn so many more onto motorcycling. Many fail the BRC because they cannot manipulate the clutch and throttle safely. Zero should start their own national electric bike schools and then for sure they'd see their bikes become common place on our roadways. And then the price would drop because of the numbers involved.
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Arry
Posted on Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 02:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

A small 4stroke single dual sport (250/400), would be a good option (suz, hon, yam, kaw). Inexpensive (used) and would handle short hop commuting or a little bit of freeway, plus you could take it to off road places that your Uly won't go. Keep the Uly, if you like it other than commuting.
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Uly_man
Posted on Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 03:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I would agree with Arry but more around the 600cc range for a bit more "Go" to the bike.

A good example of this is the MZ I have been using of late. The Uly is amazing value for money but the MZ, mine is 13 years old, kicks the crap out of it for the cash and is one serious quality built bike. It is a single "thumper" but does not have the bad points of most thumpers. It will cruise at 80 and run to 100 easy but it does get a bit "viby" in the bars at 90 plus. The torque is amazing and you can ride it in 5th from 40 plus all day no problem. It just GO, GO, GOES? So yes you should be able to find something and it will be a duel use bike as well.
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Fltwistygirl
Posted on Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 05:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

First off, sorry for the threadjack.

"I've mentioned the Zero's for the BRC but they say since there is no clutch it is not going to happen here in Nebraska. That is a shame since it would turn so many more onto motorcycling."

It definitely would open it up to more potential riders, including those with disabilities. Few more rewarding classes than those which had students with physical limitations and a dream to ride.

The "automatic" concept of more motorcycles is the wave of the future, methinks and I think the states that embrace the concept for "maybe one size does not fit all" training are getting ahead of the curve.

Greg and I demoed the Aprilia mana which had a CVT transmission, back in 2009. Then can-am came up with the automatic/paddle shift version of the Spyder. We had automatic trikes, cf motos, in our S/TEP training fleet and people would travel cross-country for training on the automatics.

Some may argue that those types of bikes are not truly motorcycles. After seeing the smiles of students who have been told they could never ride by unenlightened people, I'd disagree.
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General_ulysses
Posted on Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 08:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

A smaller air cooled two stroke with cast pistons would be good for that application. I say cast pistons because they have higher silicon content which makes them expand less when they heat up. This means after starting a cold engine, you don't have to wait as long for the engine to warm up prior to taking off as you might be advised to do with a lower silicon % forged piston (i.e. Wiseco). Wisecos require a larger bore/piston gap than cast pistons do because it will swell more after it heats up. This makes the piston rattle a bit more than a cast piston until it warms to operating temp. Plus the 2 stroke doesn't have crankcase oil to go bad prematurely with lots of short trips. This is why 2 stroke bikes have historically been used for courier type applications for a long time. A Yamaha RD400 or 350 is a pretty cool choice, but to each his/her own.
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Uly_man
Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2014 - 12:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It is just me but I would use a bike based on the Yamaha XTZ 660 engine like my MZ. Why? Well it is used on many bikes so you will always get parts, it has lots of power/ torque, is simple and easy/ dirt cheap to maintain. Water cooled, dry sump and is a very solid near bullet proof engine that can do a 100k plus miles and is the reason why many other makers use them. I have been running the MZ to work over the past two days on a 7 mile run and it is perfect. In fact it was a very fun ride as well. If you are going to ride a bike you might as well enjoy the experience while you are doing it.

A water cooled engine will get hot quicker as the water jacket thermostat will hold the heat in the engine until it is up to temp and then run it through the rad for cooling.
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Nateba
Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2014 - 04:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I remember reading your posts about getting the MZ, Uly_man. Thats a rad bike for sure. Ive looked for one around here, but they're not too common. That's something I would definitely consider. There was a KTM 640 LC4 duke for sale that I almost pulled the trigger on. Was in good shape but had 11,000 miles which seemed like problem territory for a big thumper from the 90s.
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