| Author | Message | ||
     Desert_bird |
Anyone tell me where it is? Am up in Copper Canyon Mexico and my oil pressure light is flickering at speed. Have knocked out most other possible causes. Thanks. DB | ||
| Garrcano |
I'm not sure if it is what you mean. There is a ball with a spring inside the adapter for the oil filter. | ||
| Desert_bird |
Found it. Right behind the pressure switch. Allen plug with spring and plunger. All OK, moves freely. Either a bad pressure switch, or funky oil (too thick?) or . . . bad pump? | ||
| Sagehawk |
Check ball opens @ 4-6 psi, then full pump pressure is feeding engine. There isn't a relief valve in this system. Check you're oil in swingarm, is it real aerated? Is you're oil filter super hot over what it normally is? Had a filter plug off on road king once and I couldn't believe how hot filter was while oil tank relativity was cool. Difference in oiling pathways tho. Filter feeds oil tank on king, not motor. Good luck! | ||
| Hughlysses |
I'd say there's next to no chance of a bad pump. My bet is plugged filter or bad sender or wiring. If you can find a mechanical gauge, you could replace the switch and check the reading. These oil systems don't make much oil pressure (15-20 psi max IIRC). | ||
| Desert_bird |
Sagehawk, actually I have found a pressure relief valve. It's located in the oil pump and accessible from the bottom next to the oil pressure switch. Read a few cases of xb2x's that had sticky valves that led to flickering lights. I pulled the spring and plunger today and both seem fine. E-manual specifies following for oil pressure light that stays on at speeds above idle: Empty oil reservoir. Clogged feed line (ice and sludge, freezing temperatures). Air-bound oil line. Grounded oil switch wire. Malfunctioning signal switch. Diluted oil. Malfunctioning or improperly installed pressure relief valve. Oil is not aerated in swing arm and neither filter nor the cooler has become unusually hot. No air in system and the line is not grounding (though the switch could be going bad) Interestingly, the oil light flickers when the temp drops quite bit, and goes off when motor is hot AND ambient temperature goes up. Hughlysses, just landed in Durango (beautiful old city) and am hitting the Honda store tomorrow for rear rubber. I'll check if they have an oil pressure gauge. Manual specifies 10-16 PSI@idle and 20-28@3000 rpm. No new switches out in these parts. If anything, I'll have to pull the wire to stop it flickering and just hold my breath. No top-end noise as of yet and I'm pulling a mule's load. My chica and tons of gear. (Btw, I just love this bike. It goes anywhere and does anything I can throw at it, and loves it. . . . . till a random light starts flickering . . .. ) When cold the oil in the swingarm is thick as molasses and black as tar. Wondering if it's just too thick for the pump to push up into motor till it heats up enough - hence the flickering light through the cold passes and in the evenings. I dropped a bit of old oil into there to top her off when I left the States. All I had around and needed to get on the road. When the light first started flickering deep in Copper Canyon Mexico, I topped up oil with straight 40 weight - all I could find at the 8000' Tarahumaran general store. Still flickered though. I use Amsoil 20-50W. Will replenish with all fresh oil tomorrow and see if makes a different. Doubt I'll find a suitable filter so will just empty as much old oil as I can and refit. (Message edited by Desert_bird on February 09, 2014) | ||
| Sagehawk |
Desertbird, are you refering to check ball in oil filter mount? I was going by manual with my remarks as I have not had any symptoms that you have had. I have checked mine at one of oil changes and all was clean. No trash or scoring of seat or ball. Pump schematic shows no kind of a relief valve or I'm simply not recognizing it. | ||
| Desert_bird |
Sagehawk. Item #12 in the diagram on page 3-73 from the Service Manual is a Pressure Relief Valve. That section on the Engine references the valve several times when talking about the pressure light. This is '08 xb12x. I haven't checked the check ball in the filter mount, but will do so tomorrow when I pull the filter off. | ||
| Sagehawk |
Desertbird. when you get done with these running round the world shenannigans as most of us can't do, would you post that page to me? I would like to see that diagram. I believe updated 08 oil pump has what my 07 does not. I'm always learning in this advanced age. I really wanted an 08 at the time but this used 07 was in austin at the right time, right price, so I took it. hope you get bike straightened out for rest of trip. | ||
| Desert_bird |
Got the oil changed out with fresh dino 20-50W and viola, red light no longer on. Seems that my Amsoil 20-50W got so thick the the pump could no longer bring it up to pressure when cold. The oil only had several thousand miles on it. Mysterious. Sagehawk, send me a personal email and I'll shoot you a few pages from the manual. I think the oil pump was changed in '08. This may account for the different build. DB | ||
| Uly_man |
Oil foaming will cause the oil light to flicker as you have air in the oiling system and thats NOT good. I had it with my 10 bike but after changing the oil is has been fine. | ||
| Desert_bird |
True, but wouldn't one see foamy oil in the swing arm when oil is warm? I stopped several times - from high speed right off the highway to check and the oil was not foamy at all. | ||
| Uly_man |
Then it would be low pressure or a faulty pressure switch. | ||
| Uly_dude |
Hey Bird Man, I always wanted to do the Copper Canyon in Mexico! You have to give us a quick report on your findings and thoughts. I always thought it was too rough for our Ulys. Maybe not. Watch out for the drug dealers and the pot growers! Stay safe. | ||
| Desert_bird |
Sorry for the late reply Uly dude. Been on the road for few days here. So, I hit the area of Copper Canyon, but never hit the dirt roads. Rather, I mostly wandered around on the paved sections - isolated villages around 8 - 9 thousand feet. Beautiful, remote and high. I wouldn't take the Uly on the dirt roads which lead up and down the actual canyon. Meanwhile the red light of death flickers again. Changed the oil, filter and got a new pressure switch and a Mexican Harley place, and still flickering whenever engine is under load off idle. Haven't gotten back home to check if the pressure is up to snuff. Any ideas on what else it could be? She's an '08 with 35K miles - all pretty gentle highway riding. Seems the oil pump is the only other thing that could be going out. Air would have worked way out after several thousand miles of this Mexico trip. I'm near Mexico city so have to make it back up to NM. That's several thousand more miles. I understand these engines will run with quite low pressure so I'm going to take my chances. No top end noise yet. I also understand that the newer oil pumps shouldn't go bad . . . | ||
| Arry |
Desert_bird, You noted that the manual suggests the possibility of a "grounded oil switch wire". If it is only partially grounded, it might flicker when vibrating (under load). You can follow this wire from the switch back to the drive pulley area, then it disappears into a bundle of other wires, so you could check that section pretty easily. | ||
| Dtaylor |
If the flickering is caused by the wire grounding out somewhere, it would likely flicker even if it's not connected to the switch. Maybe worth pulling the plug for a few minutes to see if that's the case? Alternately, you could rule out it being a ground wire issue by making a known working oil light circuit and see what happens: A fused 12V test lamp grounded to the pressure switch should suffice. (Message edited by dtaylor on February 16, 2014) | ||
| Desert_bird |
Yes, the lead is the next thing that I need to start looking closely at. Both very good suggestions. Looks like the wire follows from the pressure switch directly to the dash light. Sure doesn't take a direct route however. Ideas on how many miles these motors will run with fading pressure at speed? If pressure is low I suppose I'll start hearing valve train noise and heat will begin doing its dirty work quickly thereafter. | ||
| Arry |
After I posted a message I looked at mine, and there was a wear spot on the switch wire, just to the rear of the oil filter. The wire was against a oil line fitting. Mine wasn't worn thru, so I just wrapped some protection around it. From the switch this wire runs separately back to the drive pulley area (at least on my '07), but you might have to cut some tye wraps to see it clearly. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Desert_bird- Sorry you didn't get the issue corrected yet. I still vote for a worn/shorting oil pump switch wire. The pre-08 oil pumps weren't the problem, the oil pump drive gear (a gear on the crankshaft) was the problem. They failed catastrophically when they failed, sometimes taking out all the cam gears when they went. They never resulted in low oil pressure but NO oil pressure. As you said, your 08 has an improved oil pump that eliminates this drive gear so that can't happen. I can't conceive of any problem with the pump that could result in low oil pressure at speed but sufficient oil pressure at idle. The pump is going to flow more the faster it turns (it's a positive displacement pump) which in turn generates more pressure against the resistance of the oil passages through the engine. I guess it's possible that there could be a restriction in the hose or metal tube from the swing arm to the oil pump inlet. You could check both for external damage. It's possible the hose is failing internally and once the oil is hot the hose collapses restricting the flow to the pump inlet. That might explain the problem only occurring once the engine's up to temperature and at speed. OTOH, if the oil pressure is actually insufficient, I think you'd get other symptoms: lifters getting noisy/collapsing, engine running hot and going into "skip spark" mode, etc. I'm still voting for a shorted wire. | ||
| Desert_bird |
Thanks for all the input on this oil pressure issue. Hughlysses, Dtaylor, Arry, you were right. I pulled the lead off the switch and the light continues to flicker, indicating that it is grounding somewhere. Flickering becomes constant when I load up the rear end or hit a bump, indicating something related to the movement of the swing arm. Can't get to it for a while. Don't suppose it will harm anything. A constant red light on my dash far from home is disconcerting, but far less than if my oil pressure was actually low. Appreciate the support. Makes having his bike bearable! DB | ||
| Motorfish |
Does anyone have an oil pressure gauge? I've seen them on Harleys. I never really looked into where to tap into. It would be comforting to know you actually have pressure if the light malfunctions. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Motorfish- the easiest way to connect a pressure gauge is to remove the sending unit, install a tee fitting, re-install the sending unit in one leg of the tee and install the line for the oil pressure gauge in the other. |
