| Author | Message | ||
     Motorbike |
Guys (and gals  ), I'm having a little trouble with the starting system on my 08 XT with 16,500 miles on it. If I ride the bike until it is completely warmed up and then let it set for 10-15 minutes, it acts up. When I push the start button, it starts to turn over than suddenly it is just as if I let off the button. I release it and try again and sometimes it just clicks a little but does not turn over. This happened again last night so I let it set for a few minutes with the key still on and tried it again. It started right up. When I got home, I tried to make it act up again but of course it started right up every time. I am not talking about the hesitation that these bikes have due to the compression of the big V-twin. It has done that since brand new. This is different. When it acts up, I could hold the button all day and it would not turn over. It seems that I have to just wait a while and keep pushing the start button and then suddenly it starts like there is nothing wrong. Do you think my original battery is just weak? I connected a volt meter to it and get 12.75 with engine off and 13.5 to 14 with the bike running. What should it be? My Electrical Manual only says it should not be over 15 volts running but does not say what normal is at high idle. I was watching the volts as I crank it over in my shop and I noticed it drops to 7.?? volts when I first hit the yellow button and then comes back up. I have already gone through all of the grounds when the bike was new, not because of any problems though. I just did it because it was recommended on this website as preventive maintenance. I have also tried swapping the start relay with the aux relay and thought I had it fixed (only started it a few times that way though, no long term test). I then replaced the original start relay with a brand new one and put the aux back in its original location and it is still not starting properly. The bike worked great all the way to Sturgis and back, no issues whatsoever. Oh by the way, it doesn't get much better than riding in the Black Hills of SD on a nice day! Thanks!  | ||
| Ratbuell |
If it drops to 7v...yes, I suspect the battery. | ||
| Mnrider |
+1 It shouldn't drop below 9.6 volts when loaded. I installed a Road Runner AGM from Fleet Farm a couple years ago and it's working good. | ||
| Griffmeister |
You say nothing happens when you push the button sometimes. Low battery or not it should make some kind of noise. You need to watch voltage when nothing is happening. I suspect you may find full battery voltage available because there is either a bad solenoid connection or just a bad solenoid. Of course that's how I'm reading the description. Whatever other info you have please share. | ||
| Motorbike |
Griffmeister, it always attempts to turn over when I push the button but sometimes it only turns over a little bit then it clicks a couple times and stops turning over. I never let off the starter button but it just stops turning over. I finally let off and try it again and sometimes it makes a couple of clicks but doesn't turn over enough to start. After several attempts, it usually will start but sometimes I wonder if I will need to find a hill to roll it down to bump start it. I did discover one thing since I first posted though. I put my Battery Tender on it overnight and then started it at least 5 times tonight. It fired right up as if there was never a problem. Before I parked it in my workshop tonight, I checked the voltage. It was about 13 with the engine off and 14 to 14.25 running up to 2500 RPM. I hope it is just the battery. It is the original and is now 5 years old. Also, this bike was manufactured in June 2008 and not sold until Oct 2009, so it sat a long time which probably didn't do the battery any good. Thanks for any ideas! | ||
| Etennuly |
First thing I would do is check the cables for tightness at the battery. Grab them with your fingers and force them to move. If you cannot move them they are good. If they moved at all they are not tight enough. I have found that mine will work loose at least one time a year regardless of locking star washers. Then go with the load test drop to 7. V. as stated above dropping below 9.6 or so is not good. You can have full voltage, but not enough amperage to carry it through a start. On batteries I see it this way, Voltage = horsepower, Amperage = torque. If your battery looses it's torque it does not matter how much horsepower it has. | ||
| Motorbike |
Thanks Etennuly, I checked the battery connections as you suggested and they are very tight. I cannot move them at all and I have big hands! They are also very clean, no corrosion. When I have time, I think I will charge the battery and then take it in to a shop with a load tester. I have a volt meter but no load tester so I guess that would be a good place to start. No use making a mountain out of a molehill if all I need is a new battery. I will let you know how this turns out, may be a few days though. Thank you. | ||
| Uly_man |
"it always attempts to turn over when I push the button but sometimes it only turns over a little bit then it clicks a couple times and stops turning over". "I did discover one thing since I first posted though. I put my Battery Tender on it overnight and then started it at least 5 times tonight. It fired right up as if there was never a problem. Before I parked it in my workshop tonight, I checked the voltage. It was about 13 with the engine off and 14 to 14.25 running up to 2500 RPM". This is 100% the battery charge as the "clicking" always is. It is just my opinion, through testing of my 06/10 bikes battery, but I think that these batteries may develop, over time/use, a small "memory" (or something like it) effect. Not much but enough to make an effect due to the nature of the engine. Try this. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/720098.html?1378742127 Good luck. "I have a volt meter but no load tester". Do NOT use an old school "load tester" on this battery. They should be using an electronic type, if anything, and anyone who does use a "load" type does not know what they are doing. (Message edited by uly_man on October 12, 2013) | ||
| Etennuly |
You have already done a valid load test. When you hit the start button and have a volt spike draw the voltage down past 9.6 or so, I would say it is time for a battery. It has been the test that has served my '06 well and so far accurately since new. | ||
| Motorbike |
I spoke to the Service Manager of my local H-D dealership today and he said they do not load test AGM batteries, just as Uly_man stated. He said they have a modern electronic tester and could test my battery if I bring it in. Then, he asked what model of bike it was for and when I told him it was a Buell, things cooled down quickly. He informed me they never sold Buells but he could still test my battery and sell me a new one, if needed. He was good enough to agree that if I store the bike over winter, I should buy the new battery in Spring, mostly for warranty reasons. That is what I was planning to do anyway. Just FYI, when I saw the voltage drop to 7.something during start, it was only for a split second using a digital meter. Not sure how accurate that short test was. I should probably disconnect the ignition and fuel injectors and crank it for a few seconds to get a more accurate reading. What do you think? | ||
| Griffmeister |
I wouldn't worry about a very brief drop to 7 VDC with any battery although in your case it does sound like you need it tested. That first crank when it comes up on compression and stops means at that point the starter is at full stall. While I don't have my manual handy I do know there is a spec in there for full stall and it is very much higher than average cranking load. As you suggested in your last sentence, being able to crank at a steady rate for at least a few seconds should give you a good sense of starter performance. As a little side note, I think that no matter how the battery is tested it needs to be fully charged before doing the test. I would say to have it charged and ready to go before you bring it in to the dealer. | ||
| Dean |
Tell me about old fashioned load testers - I have one, but don't know of the problems with agm batteries... Dean | ||
| Griffmeister |
Actually, you can load test an AGM battery the same as a non sealed battery if you use the proper load tester. I'm not sure what everyone is referring to when they say "old fashioned" load tester as there are quite a few different types of testers that were sold. If you have one of the old chrome boxes with the toaster coils and on/off switch, then DON'T use that. If you have one with a fully adjustable carbon pile and both voltage and amperage meters then that is what you want to use. The idea is to test a fully charged battery at 50% of it's rated CCA for 15 seconds. The factory battery, which is an AGM type, is rated 200 CCA, so the test load is 100 amps. After 15 seconds, with load still applied, the volt meter should read above 9.6 VDC. Do not leave the load on for more than 20 seconds so read fast. Wait one minute then test again. A freshly charged battery will have what is called a "surface charge" which can give a false positive test. If the battery passes the same test twice, then it should be good. Some aftermarket batteries are rated higher than 200 CCA so adjust load accordingly. So just a recap, AGM batteries are "sealed" and must be properly tested with the right load for the right amount of time. Do not overload. | ||
| Uly_man |
The types of "load tester" are what Griff says. "he could still test my battery and sell me a new one, if needed. He was good enough to agree that if I store the bike over winter, I should buy the new battery in Spring, mostly for warranty reasons. That is what I was planning to do anyway". Well you could but I think you may not need to do so. Why? Well I went down this "advice" route with my 06 bike and bought a new HD AGM battery, which was a 100 UKP, and the results were no better. I know for a FACT that there is nothing wrong with the HD AGM battery and I still have my 06 bikes original battery which is still as good as it ever was. And, as I once said before, I jumped my 3000cc BMW car with it one time. Ok so it only turned the engine a few times but then again it had not been charged for six months either. Which I thought was amazing. | ||
| Motorbike |
So Uly_man, are you thinking I just have bad connection somewhere? Do I need to buy one of those really high priced chargers you've talked about to try to revive my stock battery? I just hate not having confidence that my bike will turn over when I try to start it and sometimes I'm a long ways from home. If there is a hill to roll the bike down to bump start it, no problem. But what usually happens is I have trouble when I'm already at the bottom of the hill.....  | ||
| Uly_man |
"Do I need to buy one of those really high priced chargers you've talked about to try to revive my stock battery?". No you do not. I got a bit "carried away" with the one I bought. Its a long story so no worries on that one. If you do get one just use one that will recondition a AGM type battery. But? "thinking I just have bad connection somewhere?" And. "When it acts up, I could hold the button all day and it would not turn over. It seems that I have to just wait a while and keep pushing the start button and then suddenly it starts like there is nothing wrong". I had something like this on both my 06 and 10 bikes. Both times I took the starter switch apart I but could not find any damage but after it was fine. I thought it was damage to the contacts as I had to push VERY hard to make the bike start. I would try and find the loom connections to the switch and test it out. If you do take the switch apart be aware that it is a right pain in the ass to put it back together. DO NOT lose any of the tiny parts and make sure that the throttle cables go back in right as well. | ||
| Arry |
From your first post, it sounds like it won't crank when it's hot, then when it sits a while (cools off) it starts.? Is it overheating? Is the fan working? Or, maybe, a weak battery, and it's just harder to crank when it's hot.? (just another guess) | ||
| Motorbike |
Uly-man, I did have the start switch apart last year. At that time, the bike would not start or even click. I found the screw was loose on the ring terminal of the wire that attaches to the switch itself in the handlebar control. This looseness allowed it to corrode. I polished it all up with a Dremel buffer wheel, coated the terminal with dielectric grease and reassembled. It worked great for the rest of the season but now this year, seems almost intermittent. I guess I will need to take it apart again to see if that may be the problem. Arry, thanks but this bike does not run hot. When I say I can let it set for a while and then it starts, I am only talking about less than a minute. Sometimes on cold days, I wish the bike would run hotter. Yes the fan runs at any speed over 15 MPH. Thanks to all of you for your input! |
