| Author | Message | ||
     Fltwistygirl |
So, last week I abandoned the x for some lake related recreating. Left it sitting unridden in the garage with temps from the forties to the eighties. It was untouched for eight days. Went to start it yesterday and got it to almost start but not enough juice to actually start. The clock reset and i tried again. Had to push it back into the garage. Checked battery with multimeter and it was barely over twelve. Hooked it up to charger for a couple hours and it fired right up. Over fourteen when running. Let it sit overnite and tried this morning. Barely cranked, and clock reset during start up. Ran out for a trickle charger I will be keeping with me on the road and it is sitting on that now. We got a big crank battery in dec, installed it in jan or feb, I am not at home and don,t remember when we slapped it in and have had no other issues til now. Greg suspects a defective battery. I am starting to get paranoid and thinking my electric personality is just too much for these bikes thus frying the charging systems on our ulys... lol. Thoughts? Thanks all. B. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I'd guess a bad battery too. If it's any kind of electrical probably with the bike, you can check by seeing if you have a current draw on the battery with the bike turned OFF. Disconnect one of the battery cables, and set your multi-meter to measure current. Connect one lead of the meter to the battery and the other lead of the meter to the battery cable on the bike. If it's showing any significant current, you've got a short somewhere or possibly a bad voltage regulator. If that test checks out OK, I'd say it has to be the battery. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Thanks, I will give it a try manana. | ||
| Tootal |
If you have a current draw then start pulling each fuse out, one at a time, to see if it stops. If it does, look up what that fuse is for. It will at least narrow it down for you. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Make sure you do that with the ignition off, not turned on. Otherwise you might fry your meter... measuring current is an easy way to kill them. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
So yesterday was a troubleshooting day that ended with a trip to the auto parts store for a battery load test. Results were fine. Earlier yesterday, I rode it for an hour, and checked the voltage several times throughout the day. It held firm at 12.46. Today I checked the battery first thing after not being on the tender last nite. 12.41. I knew that was probably a little low but tried to fire it up anyway. No dice mr. Mice. Not enough juice to start and the clock reset in the process. It has been on the tender for a few hours and I am planning to start it soon. At this point I am not confident using it as my 200 mile each way north country commuter where I have spotty cel service. So likely I will throw it on the trailer where it may sit til I return to colo. | ||
| Reepicheep |
You replaced the VR, right? I suspect your stator is toast. I've got an undergraduate EE degree, and for the life of me I cannot explain why a failing VR could cause a stator to die, nor why a failing stator would cause a VR to die. Yet on my M2, the two died together. And I was not alone, others have had the same experience. The only scenario I can come up with is weak... that when people have a failing stator, they are more likely to have tried to jump start (or otherwise aggressively charge) their battery while hooked to the bike. If you hook our bikes to a running car, I would expect it *would* blow up the voltage regulator. That's all I can figure, and that's pretty weak. But it happens... check your stator. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Reepi Thanks for the input. The replacement vr is in the other bike, our xt. The new problem is on the x, which I have with me in mn. | ||
| Panhead_dan |
When I go to start mine after a week or even a few days of sitting, it will turn over about 1/2 revolution and it just won't turn over any more. Acts just like a low battery. What I do is to not hold the starter button down because it will re-set the info on the dash. When it does that I just let off and hit it again. It always starts fine the second time. Does any of this sound familiar? | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Dan It does sound like a familiar uly quirk I have experienced but this is a lot weaker and a lot sooner. I planned to start it today after 6 hours on the trickle charger but it was only at 12.2 so it is losing charge. I pulled the pigtail for the battery tender off and have a solid connection between the tender and terminal now. Fingers crossed I can fire it up in the morning as I don't feel like pushing it not running up the trailer. | ||
| Griffmeister |
You know, now that everyone's talking about this I remember this happening to me a few times. In my case it turned out to be just a slightly loose battery connection. Not even sloppy loose, just enough where you could grab the cable and twist it with a little force. One of my problems was that I had the tender wires and a heated gear connection all on the battery terminals so three terminals on one post was too much for it. I made it a little easier to keep tight by putting the two add-on harnesses into one crimp connector. The two terminals seem to stay tight a lot longer now. Of course, if you have a bad battery I guess it doesn't matter how tight the terminals are.  | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Thanks, griffmeister. That's what my thoughts were too, take the excess crap out of the way so there's not even a shade of a chance that it could be interfering. The crimp connector seems like a good solution for all the add on stuff and will be something to keep in mind for our future heated gear needs (I know that's coming). I will be wandering out to the garage shortly to see if it took charge overnight. We have sourced replacement batteries for my near future needs and been in touch with the mfr about a warranty replacement. The warranty replacement will take some time so we plan to deal with that later and keep as a spare. It just seems wrong to have trailered this beast all this distance and have it sitting unridden. If it is a simple fix like installing a replacement battery, that is no big deal other than it sucks having to spend the extra dough. Once switched out, I will have a few days to make sure it was the battery that was bad, so I am confident riding it distances. If not, then I will take the truck but I definitely prefer two wheels over four. | ||
| Reepicheep |
It's odd that it is *loosing* voltage on the trickle charger. Sure, not gain voltage (bad battery), but loose voltage? I'd say an easy test is to jump start the bike off a car (never hook the bike to a running car, but one turned off is a good source of a strong battery). Then measure the voltage. If it's not up above 13 or something, your charging system... isn't... or your battery is really really really bad. But I think you already have that data, so I think you are on the right track... either a bad battery (self discharging, so it could pass a load test OK but won't hold a charge overnight) or a bad connection between the voltage regulator and the battery so it can't recharge. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Yes reepi I agree it is bizarre to lose charge on trickle charger unless I did not have a solid connection. Good news is it was at 12.7 on trickle charger when I checked an hour ago so should be strong enough to start and run up on trailer. Yay! I think my next step once I am loaded on trailer is a new battery. If that solves it, great. If not, my "mechanic" back at home will get to spend time trouble shooting "his" uly when I return to colorado. | ||
| Uly_man |
These bikes, like most modern cars/bikes, do has a small parasitic drain to then. If you leave the bike standing, depending on air temp, for more than two weeks you may have a problem. If you need to leave it longer than that just remove the positive lead from the battery. It works great for my bike IE Going on holiday. Ok. How to test the AGM/Gell battery on this bike since that is all it should be. Take the battery OFF the bike, or remove the positive lead, and charge it OVERNIGHT with a LESS than 2 amp charger. After taking it off charge and check the voltage. It should settle to about 13.5 volts. Leave it for about two hours, test it again and it should not drop below about 13.3 volts. If it drops below 13 volts then there is a problem with the battery. I would not advise any other battery other than the HD one. I do not know why but the nature of the AGM/Gel battery is not the same as the lead acid type and should NOT be treated/charged in the same way. Also "load" testing them does not work as a test method. You need to use a proper tester. You can use a bigger than 2 amp charger but it MUST be one that controls the amp output and better still one designed for this type of battery. "Good news is it was at 12.7 on trickle charger when I checked an hour ago so should be strong enough to start and run up on trailer. Yay!" That is not right. I would say, if it is a electronic charger, that it is still trying to charge the battery because it is low volts but will be at the max amps output of the charger. That is how they work. They start at low volts and high amps and control to low amps an high volts to stop damage to the battery plates. A "holding" or trickle charge is about 13.5 volts and about 300 Ma. You should still leave it overnight if the bike is not run for many miles. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Uly man, you sure about those voltages in your second paragraph being "off charger" voltages? They sound a little high to me, but I could be wrong. | ||
| Uly_man |
"Uly man, you sure about those voltages in your second paragraph being "off charger" voltages? They sound a little high to me, but I could be wrong." I know that because it is a 12 volt battery that these numbers may seem strange. But they are right. When I had my 06 bike I used to charge it to the HD specs IE 12.7 volts as per book it was a 100% charge. I had no end of problems but I never had the chance to check out the problem because the bike got stolen. When I got the 10 bike I spent a lot of time, about two months, going through the numbers for the bikes charge rate (volt/amps), with the charger I was using at the time (for the same) to find out what the problem might be. I found that the bike had a very small (not un-common on modern cars/bikes) parasitic drain, the bike charges ok (but not enough on small runs because this engine needs near a 100% charge to start well) and "old school" thoughts about charging the AGM battery just does not work IE Load testing. A AGM battery max volt charge is 14.4 volts and a Gel battery is 14.1 volts. You should get these numbers after a full charge but they will fall back quite fast to about 13.5 volts and hold it at about that level. On the bike the charge rate should be about that but not exceed 15 volts otherwise it can damage the bikes systems. I proved this, as an electrical (and other) engineer, using logic and Pro test equipment. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Interesting dialogue and I'm learning much more about batteries and charging than I'd expected. The bike did fire up and I was able to get it up the ramp to the trailer under its own power. Drove the three and a half hours to my next stop point, back in civilization, and plan to shop for a new battery tomorrow. Gonna see if that makes a difference. If all seems well, I may take two wheels the 400 miles next weekend for my class. If not its gonna be the truck. Time will tell. B. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Uly man is correct, I walked out to the garage and confirmed those "just off charger with no load" readings. Thanks for posting them! | ||
| Uly_man |
"plan to shop for a new battery tomorrow". B get a HD AGM one if you can. Also, since you do a lot of miles, you could get a set of motorcycle jump leads. These are small/compact because the cable does not need to be the size it would for cars. They are cheap and work good. As said I have been messing about with this "not the bike" charging issue and there are a few things that I find work well. 1) If the AGM battery does need a charge then leave it overnight on the charger. 2) If you do not use the bike much then either remove a battery lead or leave it on a tender. 3) Even if you do use the bike a lot give it a overnight charge once in a while to "top it off". 4) Use a charger made for a AGM type battery if you can. I had been using a normal electronic control charger and it does work. However I now use one designed for the AGM battery and it seems to work better because the bike cranks better even on the short runs that I do. The thing to remember is that a modern battery is nothing like the old lead acid types. Even the new Silver Cal types, that are there replacement, need a specific type of charge if possible. Yes you can charge a battery most anyway but for best results you should use one designed for the chemistry of that battery. | ||
| Griffmeister |
Just to be clear on the basics, an AGM battery is still a lead acid battery. The AGM just refers to it's structure which is Absorbed Glass Mat. This design allows the battery to be sealed because it does not give off as much gas during the charge/discharge cycles. The charging requirements are for the most part the same as any motorcycle battery, ie. it's a small battery and needs to charge at a low amp rate. That's why it takes all night for a full charge. Even a Gel cell is still a lead acid type but they seem to be a little more sensitive in their charging characteristics. In this case a charger specified for Gel cells may be the better choice. At any rate, the Buell should have either an AGM or Gel battery because the battery is not vertical and needs to be a sealed type. There are those here that prefer the exotics with a base metal other than lead but from a price point I believe you can get satisfactory performance and durability with no special equipment using either of the lead type batteries, and save money, too. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Go lithium. Works well for me. Shorai. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Agm was convenient and available. In the bike now. Tomorrow will be the test. If it fires up I will be a happy camper. | ||
| Ulywood57 |
Okay, great thread, I learned a lot, just waiting to hear "The Rest of the Story."  | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
New battery seems fine and we are back in Colorado. Next step is to move the voltage meter that we rigged for confirming the failing VR on the XT to the X and ride, ride, ride. When I spoke to a metric riding fellow coach about this summers XT and X troubleshooting adventures, she asked when I was gonna finally give up and dump the Ulys so I can spend more time actually riding. Valid point but I still think these are fairly common and universal issues no matter what the brand. Stay tuned. | ||
| Uly_man |
"Next step is to move the voltage meter that we rigged for confirming the failing VR on the XT to the X". Put one on each bike. The idea is that you will see a problem starting before it kills the ECM or other on the bike. A very good upgrade for this bike IMO. As far as the numbers stack up for breakdowns the Uly is nothing like as good as a Jap bike. But then again the Uly is unlike any Jap bike or any other for that matter. Oh and the 1200 GS is no great shakes either. I know various people who have had nothing but problems with them. And the cost of parts is just *****/////?? | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Yeah, Ulyman, that is the end goal: to have one on each bike, but for now we are making do with what we have on hand. With all our truck traveling adventures this year, both the truck and trailers need new tires and those are unfortunately higher on the expenditures priority list. I'm with you on knowing people who have had horrible reliability experiences with GS's and got rid of them. Heck, I was ready to throw in the towel on our k75 when it was having issues, but I'm glad Greg talked me off the ledge and we kept it. I'm also glad the XT has had 1500 problem free miles since the VR was replaced, and can't wait to get back on it, maybe tomorrow or this weekend. If (when) one of the Uly's gives up the ghost, I'll definitely consider a jap bike or another triumph: maybe a st1300, super ten, connie, tiger or a sprint. Whatever that "right bike at the right price" is. Like many of us on BB and D, I like the character, feel and handling of the Uly, and would have a hard time riding something with less personality, or less fun-factor. When it is properly running, it is, hands down, my favorite bike that I have ridden. Incidentally, we took the X off the trailer, new battery intact, and it fired right up and is running now at a steady 14. On shutdown, it was at 12.9 and dropping. As always, I'm cautiously optimistic that the battery was the problem. | ||
| Uly_man |
"When it is properly running, it is, hands down, my favorite bike that I have ridden". I have to agree with that 100%. One of the things that I have found is that even if the bikes suspension is set up right but the fueling/timing is not it can make for bad handling. That is because the power delivery, if not right, upsets the suspension. That may sound "odd" but it is key to how well this bike runs/handles. Yes I know it does sound strange but if you set up your suspension to counter a bad power delivery it will not feel as good as it should. Which was my point with the "how the hell do you know" post. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
"Yes I know it does sound strange but if you set up your suspension to counter a bad power delivery it will not feel as good as it should. Which was my point with the "how the hell do you know" post." Hmmm...I would have never made that connection. Meanwhile, he has taken it to work for two days while observing the voltage meter, with no issues whatsover. So, the conclusion for now was it was the battery. Fortunately it was under warranty so it will be interesting to see how quickly the swap of bad for good happens. I am looking forward to a nice ride tomorrow, on my own bike, the XT, and hoping this episode of voltage issues can be put to rest. Thanks again to all for your input. B. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Two Ulys for two hours yesterday and no spikes, drops, CELs or other issues! Maybe, just maybe, we can put this all behind us and focus on some nice mountain rides for the rest of the season. B. |
