| Author | Message | ||
     Luftkoph |
I installed a new throttle shaft this winter,with new manifold seals,now after the bike warms up the rpm's take a long time to drop down.I squirted starting fluid around the intake seals and it did nothing to change the rpm,also reset the tps.and the cables are new and not hanging up,and you can visually see the throttle plate closed and also see it on the ecm spy,but yet it still won't drop the rpm's for 4-5 seconds Any ideas | ||
| Froggy |
The idle is set a tad too high. After warming the bike up, adjust the idle screw, lower it a hair and see how it does. | ||
| Ratbuell |
1050 is spec...if I set my bike for even 1100 it hangs up. | ||
| Luftkoph |
no it hangs up like at 4500 and will just stay there, then slowly ever so slowly drop down or at 2000 it does the same,I just took all the airbox crap off,set the idle at 1500 and squirted carb cleaner,now I'm getting some change in rpm @%$&^** even a little squirt around the injector seals gets a change.I know they say you can change the seals without rotating the engine but it seems like it would be a bear | ||
| Etennuly |
No, I think you misunderstood what they were saying. The idle will hang from 4500 down if the base idle is set too high. You have yours at 1500, that is way too high. Bring that idle speed down to 1050 or a little lower and it will not hang anymore | ||
| Luftkoph |
no i understand,I originally had it at 1000-1050,but riding or standing still and bringing the idle up to 4500 or so and chopping the throttle it would just stay there for a few seconds and slowly fall back to idle | ||
| Snojet |
I think you might have a binding throttle shaft for any host of reasons or your adjustment on the throttle cable system is binding and not returning fast enough to the idle position. I would attempt to view the butterfly/shaft assy in-action and see if it is doing what I suspect. | ||
| Luftkoph |
Yep snojet that's the first thing I did and it snaps back and is closed I can also see it on the ecm spy that it's closed I have new seals on the way and I might put new injector seals while I'm at it I don't know of any other place air could be leaking in. | ||
| Ratbuell |
You either have the idle set too high, or you did an improper TPS reset. Get the bike HOT, then re-do both the TPS reset and the idle speed adjustment. | ||
| Reepicheep |
You did the TPS reset by the book, right? And I wouldn't be spraying carb cleaner around seals or the outside of anything, it is a nasty solvent that will eat plastic and rubber. Use an unlit propane torch, or wd40 or something. | ||
| Luftkoph |
Never had prob. With carb cleaner and plastic or rubber.now brake cleaner that's a whole nother thing I don't use that stuff at all I set the tps like I always do it runs clean no herky jerky | ||
| Reepicheep |
I think it depends on the carb cleaner. The last stuff I used melted the handle of a screwdriver I was using, as well as dissolved the nitrle gloves I was using. Which annoyed me on one hand, but it cleaned the carbs really well also (which carb cleaner doesn't always seem to do these days). | ||
| Etennuly |
Sorry, I misunderstood and was a bit confused. When you say you turned the idle up to 4500 with the throttle, that is no longer an idle setting, that becomes opening the throttle. So with the idle set at 1050 you open the throttle to 4500, you close the throttle and it hangs as it comes back down to it's idle speed, or it won't come back down below 2000 for a while? If I have that correct, try lowering your idle speed to 950-1000 with the engine at full running temperature. Open and close the throttle with the engine running and it should come right back to the idle speed of 950-1000. This is what I had to do to fix mine. It was doing the same thing. There is a picky point where if it hits only as much as 25 rpm too high it will "hang" or float back to idle. | ||
| Uly_man |
Interesting. The 2000 rpm hang is a common issue with the 06 bikes as the TPS reset is critical to getting the idle right. A 4-5000 rpm hang is another issue though? There are no reasons you why you would get this from ECM/sensor issues (unless you have changed something in the ECM) as it is way past the idle set point. The thing is that 4-5000 rpm is well into the riding zone which is more fuel ie throttle up. This could happen from a bad or wrong type TPS sensor. Cable binding is also a common issue and always seems worse on full right hand lock even on good cables. I know you say you have new ones but I would try this. If ECM-SPY says that the TPS is at zero, while you are getting 4-500 rpm, and the butterfly is 100% closed (check with a stick) then thats one thing sorted. I would say you have a problem with the set up of the throttle cables as there is nothing that I can think of that would cause this given what you say you have done with the bike. Try backing off both of the cable adjusters to zero and see if that helps as a start. Good luck. | ||
| Paul56 |
I would concentrate again on a possible vacuum leak at the injectors. When I had to replace my throttle body due to a broken shaft (before Tootal's replacements were available) I had a persistent leak that I eventually traced to the injectors. The retaining bracket would not hold them straight enough in the bore to allow the o-rings to seal. Tried tweaking the retainer, mixing parts from the old TB- what finally worked was installing the injectors with Loctite Ultra Blue silicone to augment the o-rings. Worked perfectly. Fixed the rpm hang. | ||
| Luftkoph |
Paul I think thats what it is I've tried everything else,and the carb cleaner gives me an erratic idle when i shoot a little around the seals,I'm replacing the injector o rings as well Thanks guy's for all the replies. | ||
| Luftkoph |
Well engines rotated,t/b is off now wait for parts,I was looking at the t/b and got thinking what keeps it from sucking air around the edges of the tps,and the throttle shaft | ||
| Paul56 |
It would have to be super-worn to leak enough air there to be a problem. My money is still on the injectors. If you decide to reseal with RTV make sure to apply it above the o-rings. I packed it in around the injector bodies after they were installed then installing the retainer before the RTV had a chance to set. Try to minimize injector body movement while installing the retainer as the stuff doesn't flow back if there is separation. I used Ultra Blue because it is more resistant to gas than regular RTV. | ||
| Luftkoph |
Thanks Paul I might give that a try, I've read of people using hylomar on the intake seals, it might work on the injectors also.ulyman might know I heard they used it to hold the spitfires and lancasters together and saved the empire from the nazi hoards | ||
| Uly_man |
It could have Doug but I think it was another country but thats another subject. "Loctite Ultra Blue silicone" might be ok but not Hylomar as it is for flat gaskets and not O rings. Since you have the t/b off now you could try a vacuum test on it. Good luck. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Hylomar also "melts" and drips...not good on an o-ring for a fuel atomizing device. | ||
| Luftkoph |
ok skip the hylomar. thanks guys for the tips | ||
| Xbimmer |
You don't have to wait for the o-rings, Felpro ES70599 for 2004 Mustang V6 work great and they're readily available at chain auto parts places, cheap. | ||
| Luftkoph |
thanks xbimmer | ||
| Tootal |
I've used Ultra Blue in certain applications and it's great stuff! In this application an o-ring lubricant, like Dow Corning 111 or 112, would allow the seals to slide in smoothly and keep them from binding while they take their set. Works great on the intake seals too if you cover all the surfaces. If rubber gets a grip on the flanges it can distort them. A good lubricant will keep them fluid and allow them to pull up evenly. | ||
| Luftkoph |
The service manual calls for the injector o rings to be lubed with oil,and that may be good enough,a lot of the plastic parts under the air box on this bike have become a bit brittle,possibly due to the high heat in there,quite possible the o rings had become that way too. the last time i did the intake seals i used sil-glide Well if my seals come tomorrow I'l go see if I can round up those fel-pro injector o rings thanks again for all the info guys | ||
| Luftkoph |
what look at that junk, front injector  | ||
| Luftkoph |
rear injector,I guess it doesn't hurt anything,it's just dirt and sand that falls down and gets stopped at the bottom o ring  | ||
| Luftkoph |
Is this normally how the intake seals look?the silver is just anti seize,  | ||
| Luftkoph |
maybe I will make a seal with ultra blue around that area at the throttle body and injector meet,seal out air and junk  | ||
| Luftkoph |
look at that corrosion,thats piss poor,and this is a bike that is stored indoors unless on a trip,I have a 30 year old honda dirt bike that weathers better than this.  | ||
| Luftkoph |
crustaceans from using sil glyde,going the wd 40 route this time  | ||
| Tootal |
Your seal looks perfect. You don't want the aluminum to hit the head and you have a perfect gap there. WD-40 may dry to quickly. I'm not familiar with sil glide. I use a non hardening o-ring lubricant but a light coat of grease will work too. Like I said, you just want it to squeeze evenly so I even lube the flange where it touches the seal. | ||
| Luftkoph |
Thanks again guys,went for my saturday dirt bike ride (crf450x) got back home late this afternoon and went to finish up the uly,new ford mustang injector o rings $3.30 vs $30 with shipping from HD,just used engine oil,new intake seals with a skim coat of belray blue grease,zeroed the tps cold,then warmed her up a bit and zeroed it again,and no more rpm's hanging . |
