| Author | Message | ||
     Lyonne |
The Buell became harder to start and eventually wouldn't start. I had no check engine light. I assumed battery and replaced it. It fired right up, but I started getting the check engine light. I pulled the code and it was low batter voltage. I charged the battery and the check engine light went away. However, I only measure about 12.6V when the bike is running and it dies when I remove the + battery cable. I can keep it running at higher revs without the battery but it backfires. All fuses are good. Do I have a charging system problem? If so where should I start looking? | ||
| General_ulysses |
Sounds like you either have a bad stator or a bad voltage regulator. Connector 77 being shorted out can lead to charging problems as well. | ||
| Ratbuell |
His profile says he has an 08, so no 77 connector. To the OP - do you have a shop manual? It can guide you through the testing process. If you don't, GET ONE before you attempt to troubleshoot anything. It has easy-to-follow step-by-step instructions that even I've been able to follow successfully  | ||
| Reepicheep |
Pop off the primary derby or inspection cover and give it a whiff. That's one possible easy way to detect a bad stator. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
My son's 07 ULY quit charging last year and I had to exchange our batteries to get his bike home from work. I found oil in his bike's 77 connector. The rear head seems to leak like so many others have reported and some of that oil had gotten into the 77. I cleaned it out with some dry Q-tips and the reading on my multimeter showed that the bike started to charge the battery again. No problems since and again that was last year sometime. | ||
| Ratbuell |
The 77 connector was eliminated after 2007... | ||
| Lyonne |
I do have a service manual, but it is a 2007 manual. So I guess the connector 77 is off the list. I'll run through the testing flow chart. I'm embarrassed to admit I'm an electrical engineer and I replaced the battery without checking the charging system. | ||
| Griffmeister |
What is everyone talking about? There is still a 77 connector on the 08's and up. It's the two wire connector behind the left air scoop that connects the VR to the battery. The connectors before 08 were not durable and a mod kit was sold to change to a heavier connector. Bikes from 08 and up have a heavier connector that can handle the load. They are still vulnerable to corrosion or other bad things so it's still a good idea to check this. Other than that, like everyone says, check the VR and stator. | ||
| Froggy |
Lyonne, get your hands on the 08 manuals, the differences between the 07 and 08 are huge, especially when it comes to troubleshooting electrics. In fact they are so different the 08s have a separate manual just for the electronics. | ||
| Lyonne |
Yup Froggy I am learning that lesson. I probably should have learned it at the differences between throttle position sensors, but the 08 is basically maintenance free as far as TPS. I found the 77 connector under the left side air scoop. However, it looks like I have two 2-pin connectors. They looked good. They were both sealed up and corrosion free. My voltage regulator felt hot after running for a minute. Battery voltage increases from about 12.6 to 12.7v when going from idle to about 4k rpm. The funny thing is I have had this bike for a couple of years and Sunday I planned to ride from Charleston to DC for my longest ride yet. If it is the voltage regulator I might have a chance of making it. I'm going back out to the garage to look at connectors. One of them has to be three pin so I can check the alternator. While I try to get a manual short order, I would appreciate it if anyone can help me distinguish between alternator and voltage regulator failure for 2008. As always, I appreciate the help from the board. Always quick and thorough. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Griff - that is NOT the "77" connector. The dreaded, failure-prone connector was on the 06/07 bikes, which had SINGLE PHASE stators, and it connected the stator to the VR. It is located under the front drive pulley cover. The connector you are speaking of (by the scoop) carries 12-15vDC because it is AFTER the regulator. The 77 carries 35-65vAC because it is BEFORE the regulator. And 08-up electrics are three-phase, not single phase. So no...the 77 connector does NOT exist on 08-up bikes. There may be a connector numbered "77" in a shop manual so you can find it on the map...but it has a far different purpose and location in the electrical path. | ||
| Griffmeister |
What Froggy said, big difference. There is no three wire connector. The 08 uses a single phase alternator, only two wires. Disconnect the plug to the stator and on the stator end measure each wire to ground, should be no continuity. Next check across the wires, should be 0.1 to 0.3 ohms. Lastly, measure AC voltage across the stator wires with engine at 2000 rpm, should be 40 to 56 VAC. You could do the sniff test as suggested but that can be subjective, especially if you're hoping for a good outcome. If all these pass, then the stator is okay. After this you have to figure either there's a problem in the wiring or the VR is bad. If you have a load tester, you can check the output to the battery. I believe the manual says that the charging system should be able to maintain 13 VDC with a load of at least 28 amps at 2000 rpm. Most people don't have a load tester. Just measuring voltage though, you should at least be able to see 13.5 to 15 VDC going to the battery with no load at rpm's above 2000. Be sure the battery cables and frame ground are clean and tight. Keep in mind that the VR needs to see what the battery is doing in order to regulate it's own output. | ||
| Froggy |
Actually Ratbuell you are mistaken. Connector 77 on 03-07 models 14v, it connects the VR to the battery. Connector 46 is the one that connects the stator to the VR.  | ||
| Griffmeister |
Sorry Rat, but I have an 08 XT as well as an 08 electrical diag manual. I am also on my third VR, the second one failed because the Harley tech didn't grease the 77 connector when he installed VR number two and it corroded over time. Looking at the wiring schematic for the charging system, the connector between the VR and the battery is 77A and 77B. The connector between the VR and the stator is 46A and 46B. Both connectors are two wire and both are behind the left air scoop. The 06 to 07 bikes have three phase stators, but the failure prone connector is the two wire 77 going to the battery. These would overheat and melt because they could not carry the load. It's not voltage that's the problem, it's current and pictures posted on other threads show a melted two wire connector. Some owners of earlier bikes did lose a leg on the three phase stator which would result in overheating and subsequent melting of wiring. Different reason though. Okay, despite the differences, I believe that the manufacturer maintains a certain commonality throughout model years as far as components and connectors go so I am pretty sure that "77" also carries over. However I am not closed minded and seeing another diagram to the contrary would convince me otherwise.  | ||
| Ourdee |
Question: Did you notice the headlight going bright for short periods of time, or burning out? I had voltage spike prior to my VR failure. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
The round connector (3 cells but only two pins) is the stator-VR connector. Unplug the connector and check the conductors from the stator side for continuity to ground. Both should be open, NO conductivity. There SHOUD be low resistance between the two conductors. With the connector still open, run the bike and check for AC voltage between the two conductors from the stator. 30 vac to 70 vac (rpm dependent) is normal. If this checks out, your generator output is good and the voltage regulator is bad. | ||
| Xbimmer |
I am also on my third VR... You guys should stop throwing away your money and get a Shindengen: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/667134.html Mine has been working flawlessy for over a year now, no regrets. | ||
| Lyonne |
For Ourdee: Nope. I didn't notice any voltage surges that are common with a VR failure, but I also commute during the day. For Mark: I measured both pins from the round connector towards the stator and got a hard short. I even tried another multimeter. The pins also short to each other. I guess this means that I have a ground in my stator. I measured stator voltage at ~26VAC at idle and increasing with RPM. I'm kind of confused by the conflicting indications. I guess the short to ground in the stator is still allowing some voltage generation. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
It sounds like you were measuring the windings and not measuring if they were insulated to ground. One wire of the ohm meter goes on the engine case, then measure the resistance to each of the three pins. | ||
| Luftkoph |
Xbimmer,what he said. I went thru this whole ordeal,stator passes all test,but two crappy HD voltage regulators did some mental damage to the stator that would only act up when it got good and warm,and then you would see it on the signal dynamics monitor as a quick red flash or green flashing. I replaced the whole stock setup with cycle electrics series regulator and stator from Jack at roadstercycle | ||
| Lyonne |
I was measuring shorts from the two pins (single phase stator) to chassis ground. I also measured pin to pin that was a short. | ||
| Pontlee77 |
The 06 and 07 are 3 phase the 08+ are single phase. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
The late model single-phase stator has a single winding, so pin to pin should register nearly no resistance. The coil should be insulated from ground, so neither pin should connect to ground. When you measured voltage, was it pin to pin, or pin to ground? Pin to ground should be zero. If the stator is grounded, you'll get voltage from pin to ground. | ||
| Lyonne |
I was measuring voltage from pin to pin. I'll have to check pin to ground voltage. | ||
| Glenn |
+1 on the Shindegen VR. I had replaced my "77" connector with the upgrade on my 2007 a couple of years ago. I started having charging issues this Winter with the LED voltage indicating poor or no charge. When I installed the Shindegen VR I found that the 77 connector on one of the pins was showing poor connectivity based on the color and condition. I get "green" on my LED even at idle now and can have my electric grips and jacket going and still charges great. I'm really happy with the upgrade. I got the do it yourself kit here: http://roadstercycle.com/Shindengen%20FH012AA%20Re gulator%20upgrade%20kit.htm | ||
| Uly_dude |
I recently purchased a compufire VR for my Uly. Seems like a good product so far. Haven't put any miles on it yet. I did start up the bike to make sure my little charging LED said things were good. I'm not sure but that solid green light actually looked brighter! I better put a volt meter across the terminals when I have it running just to see what I have going. But I second the VR issue; replace that factory piece before it fries something! Also, I didn't put the new VR is the same place as the old. I wanted to vacate that area for other reasons. I've got it now tucked into the left side scoop. You can kind of see it. Save all the disparingly remarks about cooling the rear cylinder, etc. The VR doesn't block much at all and I think the right scoop causes vapor lock when fighting this left scoop anyway. This way it evens out I think  | ||
| Whisperstealth |
>>>You guys should stop throwing away your money and get a Shindengen +1!!! Put in the Shindengen after stocker failed and ditched the connectors. All is glorious now. The stock VR is VERY failure prone. Mounted the Shindoggy to the oil cooler, connector plugs up. 09 uly btw... | ||
| Froggy |
I don't know why you guys are bothering with the Shindengen, you can get the CE-605 regulator from the same site, it is superior to the Shitdengen. While the Shendengen is a replacement to the stock unit, it is not an upgrade like the CE-605 which can actually shut the stator off when fully charged to reduce operating temperatures and improve its life. | ||
| Griffmeister |
Froggy, from the description it sounds like if you're running with your headlights on that creates enough load so that the stator would never shut off. If you unplug your lights for a track day it would shut off and give you more HP. I don't know, I almost bought a Shindegen last time but Buellster Parts had a stock unit for $87 so I decided I could do one more at that price. Next time..... | ||
| Tootal |
I think that "anything but stock" is the answer. Looks like the Shindengen is working for folks but like Uly_dude I have experience with the Compufire. I had a 91 Harley that went through three stock VR's in 50,000 miles. I put on a Compufire and it's still working over 100,000 miles later! So it looks like folks have options and some pretty good ones at that! |
