| Author | Message | ||
     Desert_bird |
Has anyone had this experience, or have any info?: I've recently been trying to troubleshoot a persistent oil leak on my '08 xb12x. During my normal winter maintenance and frustrated with a constant weep from below the starter and downwards onto the muffler, I went ahead and replaced the starter motor gasket and checked the stator plug (both for the second time. This time I sealed the stator plug with RTV). All this despite the fact that it looked a hell of a lot like there was an oil drip coming from the housing of the starter motor itself. But I just thought that it was old oil coming off the housing from that earlier leak as the case warmed up. Well, just ridden around a bit and shone a light into the area beneath the starter motor. Area where the motor and plug meet the case is clean but there's another f#%$ing pool of oil forming, and a telltale drop of oil hanging off the the starter motor housing. WTF?! Google turns up a few HD related sites which mention similar problems with starter motors when the oil seal on jackshaft (starter pinion gear) leaks, or when oil makes it past the thrust washer on the jackshaft bolt and into the starter housing . . . Not a lot of oil, but just enough to seep past and sit around in starter housing, and leak from there. The starter motor is a 1.4 KW replacement unit from Rare Electric. I understand that this is a common problem with All Balls bearings used in some starter motors and some HD units, which have faulty and/or NO seals on the jackshaft. I'm no starter motor expert but seems like a seal is a must on that shaft. Any experience or thoughts? DB | ||
| Argentcorvid |
Another possibility: are you absolutely positive the rocker gaskets aren't leaking and dripping oil on the starter? (Message edited by argentcorvid on April 15, 2013) | ||
| Desert_bird |
Kyle; actually those gaskets were part of my winter maintenance. All replaced, as well as the crankcase vent hose. All's tip top up there. I looked again and there are literally drops of oil hanging off several seams on the starter motor housing. Looking like the seal/s on the starter motor clutch are bad. The drag is that I had to put this new starter motor in while in Brazil during my road trip to Argentina. The starter motor cost me around $100 ($139 now), $120 to ship it out to me, and $600 to clear customs in Brazil. After holding it for 3 weeks, the Brazilian govn't accused me of lying about the purchase price and customs fined me and extra $200, just for good measure. NEVER EVER buy foreign parts in Brazil. I have to chuckle when people complain about high-taxes and government intrusion the U.S. They have no idea how good we got it, and how bad it can be. The clutch was broke on the original starter. No-turning issue. Get this, that part is manufactured in Brazil but the factory didn't want to send it to me. So I had to purchase from overseas. Oh, and a HD starter from a Sao Paolo or Rio dealer? $1200 USD.  Anyhow, appears this cheap Nippon unit from Rare will keep leaking. They won't honor a warranty because it's 2 months beyond the 12 month return date. A warning to others considering a Rare 1.4KW starter for $139. Fact is it was leaking from when I got back to the US 7 months ago but I thought it was the starter gasket. Anyone replaced a starter clutch on these cheap Japo/Taiwan units? Perhaps makes better sense to spring $300 for a new (good) starter motor and not worry about this BS anymore. (Message edited by Desert_bird on April 15, 2013) | ||
| Road_kill |
DB, Sorry to hear of your start motor problems. I have replaced the starter gasket twice on my '08 XB12X. It's dry for 18 months now but the starter clutch is beginning to go bad (@45k miles). So, I bought the exact replacement you did from Rare Electric ($139). Plan to swap it out during an engine rotation next winter - along with a few other maintenance items and upgrades. Now I wonder if I shouldn't take apart the new 1.4kW unit and give a once over. I have no problem upgrading stock gaskets & seals with the premium stuff - if possible. Beats continually cleaning the top of my tranny and muffler ... | ||
| Desert_bird |
Roadkill. Two gaskets? Jeez. But I share your frustration with oily Uly crevices. If I were back in the US when my clutch failed (at 30K) I would have replaced just that component and kept the original OEM starter unit working. I'm not one to trash good hardware and the starter motor itself will usually keep going. It appears that Balls sells a nice clutch replacement kit with high quality bearings and seals for something like $70. This seems like a cost saving option to keep an otherwise high quality and working component working. It also seems that other HD (not Buell) owners have had similar leaking complaints with their starters and replace only the starter clutch assembly, or install new seals. Other Bueller's seem to have made the change just fine. Most leak topics that I've seen for that Uly crevice relate to rockers, vents lines, stator plugs and starter gaskets. Not one on a funky starter jackshaft seal. Now in my experience the Denso model that Rare sells is a step down in fit, finish and (most importantly) quality. One of three screws on its solenoid cap rattled out on its own after a week, and another head sheared off upon tightening. Maybe I got the lemon . . . but i think the adage 'you get what you pay for' is usually more true than not. Higher quality 1.4/7 KW units seem to be available for $250 and up. Not sure I would bother taking apart a new Denso unit to beef up components. It doesn't make sense for an el-cheapo part if you figure that your time in labor is worth any more than minimum wage. But now that you got it, could be worth a look . . . I tried reaching a Rare tech person to confirm if there is a seal in that starter unit. Apparently some just don't have them. No luck. Rare they are! | ||
| Desert_bird |
Pulled the starter out and opened her up. Full of crankcase oil. Oil has been seeping in through the jackshaft and into the starter motor body. There is no o-ring on the starter clutch assembly, just a sealed bearing. Head up for those replacing starters. Im not even sure if there needs to be an o ring or if the sealed bearing is enough. DB | ||
| Sagehawk |
Sealed or shielded bearing desert bird? | ||
| Desert_bird |
I believe double sealed. Japanese bearing like the one here, however black seals on both sides. So a poor seal could allow oil to seep between the inner and outer race, contaminate the bearing grease and flow into the starter body . . . ? The starter clutch drive just drops into starter motor housing. That outer race there isn't even pressed in. So oil could also seep in between the outer race and the starter motor housing. . . . I don't know. I haven't found one Buell owner with this problem and the Buell friendly tech guy at the local dealership scratched his head. There are plenty of HD threads on the problem however. New Denso unit on order. Can't spring $300+ for a better unit and afraid the oil has contaminated the innards enough that even with clutch replacement I would have problems down the road. I'm SICK of pulling starter motors on this bike.   | ||
| Desert_bird |
A new Denso arrived in the mail. Housing is ripped on lead between solenoid and stater motor. Done with Denso Can anyone, please, suggest a manufacturer or source for a new, quality starter motor? (Not a $500 campfire). db | ||
| Bluex |
I had the same problem with the Rare unit. Light fuse blown when start button was pressed. Front section of solenoid was soaked with oil. I pulled it out, cleaned and tightened everything up. It's been 2 weeks. I've been looking out for oil leak- and my fingers crossed! | ||
| Gobadgers |
Follow up on Rare Electrical Starter, same unit as above. Purchased the unit in the middle of last summer. There was noticeable improvement in starting power. However, like those above, had a problem with oil leaking into the solenoid. Opened up inspection cover and cleaned up as much oil as I could. Starter started 1 time after that, and then subsequently failed again after 25 miles. This happened at about 4000 miles on the starter. Luckily, failed in front of garage the 1st time and I was smart enough not to shut down the bike until home the 2nd.  Rareelectric | ||
| Biffdotorg |
Digging up a an old thread. What have guys done to seal these Rare Electric starters? The one I purchased in 2016 is now leaking oil as well all over the top of the tranny and down onto the muffler. I may just pull it out, replace the gasket and try to tighten it up. If I could put a bead of silicone around it, I would. But my guess is that would just keep the oil in the start and soon would fry the solenoid as others have mentioned. What to do? |
