| Author | Message | ||
     Portero72 |
 Well, the weather and my schedule have allowed little riding time since last week, so I only have 400 miles of seat time on the new beast. Keeping in mind I am comparing everything to the Uly, here are some thoughts: The KTM is scary fast, at least to me. Good power starts early and keeps building towards redline. The 6 speed tranny helps ensure great acceleration at any time. Quite a bit quicker than the Buell, even with the xb9 gearing kit installed. That said, the final gearing seems really close between the two bikes. 6th on the KTM equals around 4k rpm at 70 mph, very close to the xb9 gearing. I can imagine how beastlier the Uly would be with a 6 speed. The vibes on the KTM are much more coarse. It is never annoying, and seems to be smoothing out, but the Uly's low frequency throb is quite relaxing. The KTM is much more high-strung and focused. The 990 has a TON of engine braking. Chop the throttle, the front end dives, and you slow WAY down. The opposite is also true-VERY twitchy throttle. It explodes forward with the slightest twist. I am having a hard time being smooth thus far. Need to acclimate. Brakes? Holy crap. The front binders on the 990 slow the bike down viciously. Scarily. One finger stoppie kinda powerful. Also need to adjust to these. The highway is a pleasant ride on the 990. Motor is smooth, wind is decently well controlled, chassis is solid, roll on power is always there. NOT as comfy as the Buell for the long haul, I can already tell. The Uly's seat fits me much better for distance. The Uly is also heavier, a trait I prefer for distance. It is more substantial at speed and feels a bit more planted. The KTM, being the lighter bike(40 or 50 lbs, I am not sure), is quite easy to flick around, change direction mid corner, wheelie, etc. Nimble is an understatement, referring to this bike. Verdict? I am really falling in love with the KTM, for reasons different than the ones that make me enamored with the Buell. Therefore... I am keeping both bikes. At least for the time being. Spent all last Sunday on the KTM, came home, and took the Buell out for the night. Still in love with that bike, even after 65k Uly miles. They serve different enough roles that I am going to try to justify keeping them both. Merry Christmas to me, indeed!  | ||
| Dr_greg |
Having done a similar thing (85K miles on '06 Uly, then bought a Ducati MTS1200S) I echo some of your sentiments. The '06 Uly is still my commuter, and still a relaxing, enjoyable, and yes, even exhilirating, ride. Will never sell it. --Doc | ||
| Arry |
I have great admiration of KTM's and Ducati's, so its very interesting to hear impressions an these newer bikes--especially because I probably won't get to try them myself. It, also, speaks very well of the Uly that you both have decided to keep your Uly's. I hope you both continue to weigh in with your impressions and comparisons of the different bikes. | ||
| Buellerxt |
Thanks Portero and Greg. Always appreciate the comparisons. KTM, Ducati, Buell? Hard to go wrong!  | ||
| Kublak |
I'm just jealous of you warmer climate dwellers. I put both of my Buells away the week after Thanksgiving. Only throttle control I've used has been a couple of times with my snowblower. I know a guy with a KTM 990, and it seems like a bike that would appeal to a Uly owner. He enjoys his after his Uly. | ||
| Portero72 |
I get jealous of myself, too, at times. It's a charmed life. Texas can be brutal in July and August, but the trade off is being able to ride year round. I cannot imagine having to put away my bikes for months at a time. My mind and mental state are just not right without seat time. Another random thought-the seating position on the 990 is much more compact, and the saddle leaves little room to adjust and squirm-at least for me, at 6'2" and 210 lbs. It is also shorter and easier to plant my feet. The legroom and roomy riding position of the Buell make it the better touring bike...for me. | ||
| Uly_man |
Very nice Portero72. "The 990 has a TON of engine braking. Chop the throttle, the front end dives, and you slow WAY down." My 06 Uly had NO engine braking but the KTM sounds more like the 10 bike. I now use it to control most of my braking and with the correct use you can "scrub off" a lot of speed with it if needed. That with good front/rear pads can pull up the bike VERY quick. "VERY twitchy throttle. It explodes forward with the slightest twist. I am having a hard time being smooth thus far. Need to acclimate". Yes this is something that has been noted about the KTM. You can do something about it though. Have a look at the KTM site. | ||
| Portero72 |
Uly_man- I have seen a few mods so far on the SMT forums that appear to really benefit the bike. I plan to de-smog it, remove the secondary butterflies, and install the Power Commander. Not anytime soon, though, as money and time are currently in short supply. | ||
| Portero72 |
One more musing-the KTM has not returned better than 32 mpg yet. Boo. | ||
| Teeps |
I've owned a few KTMs, in my time. And, they were among the better bikes I've owned too. How is maintenance cost on that beast? | ||
| Portero72 |
Teeps- I have yet to get a handle on that one. Going by the book, and using all KTM branded oil, etc, it's gonna be expensive as hell. However, many of the guys on the forums report no ill effects with other types of oils. My big concern was a valve check at 600 miles. Seems other owners made a stink about that as well, as after the 2010 year the first scheduled check happens at 5k. So it seems unnecessary. Whew. Obviously, the Buell is gonna be a cheaper ride. One more plus in the Uly column. | ||
| Jessemc |
Uly_man wrote "My 06 Uly had NO engine braking but the KTM sounds more like the 10 bike. I now use it to control most of my braking and with the correct use you can "scrub off" a lot of speed with it if needed." I presume most of the increased engine braking is a result of different fuel mapping. Has anyone compared the fuel maps between the the '06 and the '10? Granted they may not be directly comparable because of DDFI 2 and DDFI 3 changes but fuel maps are fuel maps. | ||
| Bikelit |
The increased engine braking is a result of the light crankshaft on the KTM,...... | ||
| Hdxbones |
Engine braking is a result of compression ratio and cam timing | ||
| Jessemc |
Bikelit and Hdxbones, I think you misunderstood my question. I'm talking about the difference in engine braking observed by Uly_man between his '06 and '10 Ulys. | ||
| Uly_man |
Jessemc. As I said my 06 bike had little engine braking at any point and I would make a point of covering the brakes at all times. The 10 bikes engine braking seems to work over a number of conditions. You can "roll off" the throttle in any gear and get good controlled engine braking but if you "roll off" to zero throttle the engine braking is VERY hard. | ||
| Jessemc |
Uly_man, I've got an '06 and like yours the engine braking is practically non existent. If my KTM 950-riding buddy rolls off, I'm right up his ass in no time! It seems to me that the '10 must have a significantly different fuel map for lower engine speeds. I was wondering if anyone had eyeballed them and could tell us what is different. Is your idle set lower on the '10? | ||
| Ferrisanyoneseenferris |
I really appreciate Porteros comparison between the 2 bikes. I'm not interested in buying a KTM990 but I like something about them, so its good to hear about the differences! I love my Ulysses more and more every time I ride it. Did 150 miles on mostly highway, all with no helmet, averaged probably 80 with my knobby TKC's felt fine after it, not that its a lot, but the TKC's are definitely felt. | ||
| Uly_man |
"Is your idle set lower on the '10?". No it is the same and nothing to do with engine braking. This is in the ECM prog and the 10 ECM prog is a LOT more complicated than the 06 one. "If my KTM 950-riding buddy rolls off, I'm right up his ass in no time!" Engine braking is, more or less, just for better economy/control. No disrespect but thats not safe riding and you should NEVER rely on it or your brakes. An "escape route" is ALWAYS needed while riding a bike. | ||
| Jessemc |
So idle is set the same and doesn't contribute to difference in engine braking between '06 and '10 bikes. Differences in complexity aside, has any one looked at the fuel maps and know what is different in terms of fueling? Is Uly_man the only one who has ridden an '06 and a '10 and noticed the difference? | ||
| Uly_man |
"So idle is set the same and doesn't contribute to difference in engine braking between '06 and '10 bikes". Well the first thing is that the idle on the post 06 bikes is controlled by a servo valve on the stack. The engine braking on the 10 bike only comes in at about 5% from zero throttle. I am no expert but do not think it is from the fuel map. More like engine timing based on load, gear and TPS position. As far as engine braking on the 06 bike I would not worry any. Just adjust your riding style to suit. "Uly_man the only one who has ridden an '06 and a '10 and noticed the difference?". To me the 06 is a 45 ACP if the 10 was a 9mm Glock. The Glock is refined and smooth, like the 10 bike, but the 06 bike has the "edge" only something like the ACP can give. I would have both of either, because all are good in there own way, but then again I am just like that. | ||
| Froggy |
The 06 doesn't have an idle, when you adjust the idle all you are doing is keeping the throttle permanently open a small amount. The 08+ bikes use a computer controlled valve that opens and closes to allow air into the motor, while the throttle body stays 100% closed. The computer can be adjusted to increase or decrease engine braking. Stock vs stock, the 06 and 08+ engine brake about the same (too much). The difference is that on the 08+ bikes it is a couple clicks to decrease or increase engine braking. | ||
| Hooper |
Another comparo: How much attention does the KTM garner at stops versus the Buell? Any goofy questions? ("What is that, some sort of dirt bike? Is that a BMW?") | ||
| Jessemc |
Froggy: The 06 doesn't have an idle, when you adjust the idle all you are doing is keeping the throttle permanently open a small amount. The 08+ bikes use a computer controlled valve that opens and closes to allow air into the motor, while the throttle body stays 100% closed. The computer can be adjusted to increase or decrease engine braking. Stock vs stock, the 06 and 08+ engine brake about the same (too much). The difference is that on the 08+ bikes it is a couple clicks to decrease or increase engine braking. Thanks Froggy for explaining the difference in the way "closed throttle/engine idle speed" operates on the '06 and '08+ engines. Is all of the engine braking on the '08 controlled by adjustment of air intake with closed throttle body? On the carbed Suzuki VX800 reducing the idle speed/"closed" throttle rpm was a way to get an extra bit of engine braking. Unlike you, I've never ridden a bike with too much engine braking  Uly_man's post was the first post I read that mentioned the difference in engine braking on the DDFI 2 and DDFI 3 bikes, For day-to-day riding, I'd rank engine braking as a more significant change than any of the other improvements. I love my '06 but the engine braking might be what gets me onto an '08+. Jesse | ||
| Bikelit |
Both the 06’ and 10’ motors allow apx the same amount of air through with the throttle closed. Any difference would be from extra fuel being burned. Perhaps you have a leaky fuel injector? A simple test would be to hit the kill switch on decel. Compression has zero effect in engine braking with the throttle closed. Vacuum however, does. Worn rings or valves would reduce vacuum and decrease braking. Do a leakdown test. Never rode a bike with too much braking? Ever rode a V-Max or a Boss Hoss single speed??? (Message edited by bikelit on January 20, 2013) | ||
| Teeps |
Froggy Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2013 Stock vs stock, the 06 and 08+ engine brake about the same (too much). Too much? That's what the clutch is for; long before slipper clutches, real men knew how to use the clutch... Sorry, couldn't resist. | ||
| Kag |
I will be getting on e of the new KTM 1190R when they finally make to our shores. Plan to keep the Uly and yes....trade in the HD Ultra | ||
| Portero72 |
Another observation, now that I have about 1000 miles on the KTM, and have switched between bikes several times; I have a very hard time NOT riding like a tool on the KTM. It's like it begs me to be a jerk. Wheelies are around every corner, and brake sliding the rear wheel is ridiculously easy. Total hooligan bike. The Buell, on the other hand, is an easier bike to live with on a daily basis. The throttle is not as touchy in traffic, the helmet lock is right there and easy to use, and it is just a smoother, more relaxing ride. | ||
| Arry |
Sometimes you feel like a nut... Sometimes you don't. | ||
| Strokizator |
With 1000 miles on the bike, you're about half way through the life of the back tire. The stock Conti's don't wear well. A G2 throttle tube will help with the abrupt throttle. It's funny how the two bikes can be so similar and yet dissimilar at the same time. I've got a 990ADV and my buddy rides a new SMT. I rode it about 5 miles and it scared me. | ||
| Portero72 |
Strokizator- I have not been impressed with the tires on the SMT. I can feel them sliding all over the place. On the other hand, they are not showing much signs of wear. I am gonna TRY and adjust to the throttle response. Clutching it at slow speeds helps a ton. My biggest complaint between my 06 Uly and the 09 was the progressive cam on the throttle. The 06 had the immediate hit that I miss on the 09. What was different between the ADV and the SMT? It scares me, too, at times...but I like it. | ||
| Strokizator |
Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I was comparing the KTM to the Buell. Lots of similarities and differences. The Buell has more "character". The water cooled 990 is superior on paper but for my style I prefer the power to come in down low. My complaint on the ULY is that it is an adventure-style bike rather than a true off road machine; not that it stopped me from going everywhere on it. As for the SMT over the ADV, the SMT feels lighter and more nimble so things happen a lot faster. If I were a young guy I'd be on the SMT. | ||
| Turf_moor |
As a Uly owner (an 06) and a former KTM owner of a 950 Adv, I can honestly say that I MUCH prefer the Buell. As thge last poster said, it's the immediate lowdown shove. What's more the Uly is just as reliable as the KTM was comparing the first 20,000 miles. Plus it's more comfortable (the best seat in motorcycling) and it looks better than any other bike I've seen. |
