| Author | Message | ||
     Hughlysses |
Went for a ~100 mile ride this afternoon, stopped to gas up. Went to start bike, it cranked over hesitantly as it sometimes does. I let off starter, attempted to start again; engine sort of coughed but fired up. Check engine light stayed on for ~10 seconds and finally cycled off. Bike seemed to be running normally. ~20 miles later, I pulled off the road and noticed the engine was idling fast, say 1600-1800 RPM. (This is an 07 Uly with an 09 engine, with IAV). Shut off bike, adjusted my gear, got back on, fired it up and rode some more. Headed back home and every time I'd come to a stop light the idle would stay fast like that. I figured the IAV had some trash in it or something. I get home and let the bike idle in the driveway- it's still idling fast until I click it into neutral, when the idle drops right down to ~1100 RPM just like it's supposed to. Pull in clutch, click it into gear, idle goes back up to ~1600 RPM. WTF? I repeat the process several times with the same exact results. I can't fathom what could cause the idle to speed up if the bike is put in gear. Maybe this is just one of those weird glitches that clears itself up; I guess I'll find out tomorrow. If anyone has any ideas, my ears are open. | ||
| Tootal |
I'm thinking Gremlins!!  | ||
| Hughlysses |
I put another ~100 miles on the bike this morning; the problem seems intermittent. Rode ~3 miles from home, at first stop light, bike does the high idle thing. 20 miles farther at next light, normal idle. Stop to get gas, normal idle. I go ahead and do the "forced TPS reset" procedure before I take off, ride 5 more miles to meet some friends. ~30 minutes later we leave from friend's house, 5 miles later at first light, high idle. And so on for the rest of the day, sometimes it would idle high, sometimes it'd be fine. Shifting to neutral would drop it to normal idle; dropping it back in gear would give high idle. I found later on that when the engine was idling high, if I deliberately lugged it down by holding the brake and easing out the clutch, it would drop to normal RPM range and stay there. It would NOT do that yesterday. Those gremlins are definitely having some fun with me... | ||
| Hughlysses |
Interesting- a search turned up a post by Froggy some time back that confirms that on the 08-up bikes the ECM senses both clutch lever position and gear selector position and changes the idle speed based on these inputs. I'm wondering if I don't have a sticky switch on the clutch lever since the problem is intermittent. | ||
| Tootal |
That's an interesting search Hugh. Haven't heard of that one, I'm really interested in what you find. The only thing I could think of is that the idle was set just a little high where at certain temps it idled a little higher than others causing the problem but since it's an 08 that shouldn't be the problem. I'll be watching this thread. Sorry you couldn't make Buelltoberfest, might of had first hand experience! | ||
| Hughlysses |
I went out and looked at the clutch switch; it has a plunger which extends when you pull in the clutch lever. So if it could hang up in the "clutch engaged" position, and then the ECM would cause the high idle. I gave the area around the switch plunger a shot of contact cleaner hoping some would get into the switch mechanism. If that doesn't help, I'll take the switch off, disassemble it, clean the contacts, apply some dielectric grease, put it back together and reinstall. (I've been through this drill with my Ascot's front brake switch a few times.) Worst case (horror!) I could break down and buy a new switch for $10 or $15. | ||
| Ourdee |
My clutch lever pivot is worn. If I don't hold it in just right the idle goes up. I have another lever but have not installed it yet. Try lifting up on the lever while holding it in. | ||
| Rfp52 |
Are you sure the switch is connected to the ECM? It is in parallel with the neutral sensor and connected to the starter button. If the bike is in gear and the clutch is not engaged it won't start. If it is in neutral it will start with the clutch released. If it was stuck in the open position your bike wouldn't start in gear with the clutch engaged. With the bike in gear when you squeeze in the clutch it makes the switch and completes the starter circuit. You could also check if your starter will engage if you are in gear with the clutch released. (Be holding the bike or sitting on it when you do) if so, it is stuck in the closed position. In all the models I have seen, this is a hard wire connection in the handlebar wiring, not something connected to the computer. It sounds more like the clutch is out of adjustment. When you stop in gear and squeeze in the clutch it may still be putting a slight pull on the motor causing the ECM to compensate. In neutral that pull isn't there. When your bike is warmed up shut it off, put it in gear, squeeze in the clutch and move it. If you feel resistance to rolling your clutch is out of adjustment. | ||
| Hughlysses |
The sticky clutch switch diagnosis seems to have been confirmed. Like I posted, I gave it a shot of contact cleaner/lube last night and worked it a bunch of times. During this morning's commute to work, I had no high idle issues. The clutch is adjusted properly, so that wasn't it. Even if it was dragging, the ECM would only open the IAV enough to maintain the idle at the required level (1050 RPM); it wouldn't go ~1600 RPM. I've seen it work like that on the 1125CR I had; you could ease out on the clutch with the bike in gear and walk the bike up a ramp into the back of a truck without ever touching the throttle. I didn't try to start it in gear, but that would be one way to confirm the issue if it happens again. Remember that on the 2008-up bikes the ECM controls a lot of things that it does not on early bikes. If Froggy's assertion that the 2008-up ECM considers clutch and gear position to determine the idle speed, that confirms something I've noticed since I changed from the original 2007 engine to the 2009 engine (and ECM and wiring harness). On my first trip to the twisties last year I noticed it seemed the bike went into corners differently and it took me a good bit of riding to adjust. This was consistent with the idle "hanging" at a higher level compared to the 2007 ECM and therefore providing less engine braking when approaching turns. Nice to know it wasn't just me. | ||
| Mhevezi |
Hugh- That is correct. On my '08, with the stock ECM, the engine idle would increase, as I let the clutch out. I assumed this was some sort of an anti-stall circuit, and Froggy confirmed this. Don't know why you need that on a bike with boatloads of torque, but OK. Since I switched to an EBR ECM, that feature is disabled, and the engine idle speed is more consistent. I honestly didn't care for that feature and prefer the bike to idle at a constant RPM. | ||
| Motorbike |
Mhevezi, Did you disable that feature on your EBR ECM? I have the EBR ECM on my otherwise stock 08 XT and the RPM increases as I release the clutch, just as it did with the stock ECM. Thanks. | ||
| Swampy |
Don't forget to check the easy thins like the engine grounds, and battery to frame grounds. The day I left out for the Last Ride my 08 was doing all sorts of funny things, high idle, starting only with the clutch pulled in, just plain weird stuff. I did a quick clean of the grounds, installed star washers and it ran perfect. I then had further problems with starting but that was related to the engine to frame ground needing a good cleaning. |
