| Author | Message | ||
     Buewulf |
Whenever, I read about a rider meeting their end to no fault of their own like the most recent "Rider Down" thread, it always wakes me up a little. After reading Bdrag's comment about the effectiveness of his "yellow light" in that same thread, I am curious to hear some experiences from you guys with respect to some of the passive systems you have tried that you feel have an impact on your noticeability to other drivers. By passive I mean something that doesn't require any action from you the rider to initiate. A louder horn, for example, is not a passive system. A headlight modulator is. I was talking with my brother last night, and he suggested I pass on his experience with his new riding gear to other riders I know. My brother rides and commutes in the Salt Lake City area. After a couple of close calls, he decided to make a switch to Hi-Viz gear about six months ago. He says the difference in his commute since then has been unbelievable. When I was riding with him a few months ago on a Rocky Mountain trip, I witnessed the effectiveness of Hi-Viz firsthand. To say he was more noticeable would be an understatement: he was nuclear explosion visible. Even when I was leading and focusing on some fast curves, my peripheral registered his presence immediately whenever one of my mirrors caught sight of him. I also watched with amusement as I could literally see the eyes of car and truck drivers everywhere fix on his form as we made our way. I even watched a teenage girl jabbering away on a cell phone about to make a Formula 1 style left turn suddenly drop the phone, grab both hands with the wheel and abruptly stop as my brother came into view around the bend. She watched him, eyes-glued, like a bug to a light as he passed, after which she decided to complete her left turn right in front of ME (gracefully avoided the collision, thank you very much!) He believes it is the best money he has ever spent on anything other than his bike. I am sold and will be switching over to Hi-Viz gear myself. So that is my share. What are your experiences / tactics? | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
Visible gear: A word of caution - I have friends with Hi-Viz helmets, and they fade horribly after a few months of riding. I can only assume it's something in the paint that fades due to exposure to the sun. The specific helmet I'm thinking of was a Scorpion modular - other brands and models may vary. I opted for a gloss white helmet since it contrasts my Hi-Viz jacket which I think makes the combination even MORE visible.  Just like Bdrag mentioned, different colored headlights. The lights pictures here are 3000k HID in the low beam, 6000k HID in the high beam. Both powered by a 55W ballast. The camera didn't exaggerate how bright they are, it's really that staggering in person. I see the reflections from road signs in the middle of the day.  I've used a modulator in the past, and I believe the two bulbs of a different color is more effective, although the modulator was an improvement over stock. I have also added tail/brake lights to the top case, and applied reflective tape in some areas. I have no hard evidence that this helps other than I have never been rear-ended!   | ||
| Uly_man |
I have to say I always like leather but it tends to be black most of the time. Hi-Viz gear WORKS as do running lights and LOUD horns. Treat riding a bike like a Gun. Always assume it is loaded, it could blow up in your face and its use is one of the most dangerous things in the world. Never ASSUME anything and NEVER trust anyone on the road including other riders. Years ago bike gear was heavy, costly and a pain. Today you can buy great gear for good money. It is a "no brainer" these days unless you like pain. Also speed and rider skill is a problem. The number of people I come across with "tunnel vision" like ride skills just beggers belief. If I had my way anyone who wanted to use the road would do two years on a bike first and the first part of the training would be a smack in the face with a lump of concrete. (Message edited by Uly_man on October 15, 2012) | ||
| Eaglerider |
I wear a Hi-Vis vest. I can wear it over anything any of my gear so that I'm not restricting what I wear for protection. I can also wear it over my rain gear. It's folds down small and easy fir in the tank bag. For the back, I also added extra LED lights and reflectors to the rear of the bike. For the front, I changed the low beam to 4.3K HID and leave the high beam on incandescent. Although I have the High-beam-with-both-lights-on mod for I normally ride with the low beam only. This way, it leave me the option to hunk and flash my high beam when I need to attention of the driver | ||
| Buewulf |
"If I had my way anyone who wanted to use the road would do two years on a bike first and the first part of the training would be a smack in the face with a lump of concrete." I laughed out loud when I read that! Thanks, Pkforbes. I remember reading some factoids in a motomag from either a European or Japanese study that tried to determine what affects gear color had on potential accident avoidance. A Hi-Viz gear was number one with a 37% reduction in accidents, a white helmet was number two with 24%. I have to say your combination definitely engages the eye. | ||
| Bluebiker |
I gotta agree with the Hi-Viz, with white helmet. I've had people going to move into my lane to pass, would have been the old, "just got cut off again" thing. They see me and wait till I get past. Some people joke about how bright it is, but people do see you. I got hi-viz vented jacket from first gear when I realized how well the other jacket I have works. It's like using the horn, I've had people in a car blow the horn back at me, but I know they saw or heard me. Better than ending up a hood ornament. | ||
| Ulysapper |
Hope this isn't taken as a hijack, it directly relates to the discussion... Can anyone direct me to a thread that discusses the "how to" of adding that extra light to the top case? I'm not too gifted when it comes to wiring things unless I've got a good set of instructions. I really like how the one in the posted pics here seems to appear as if they were originally meant to be there. Thanks! | ||
| Tastroman |
I've used a "Helmet Halo" for years as I once got behind another rider at night with one and was shocked how much it stood out. It's a reflective rubber band that snugly fits around the lower part of your helmet. For $17 it can't hurt. http://www.reflectivedecals.com/haloebay.htm | ||
| Eaglerider |
3M high reflective self adhesive tape can be purchased for about $1/ft | ||
| 7873jake |
Ulysapper, im on a tablet that doesnt do the search thing so well and cutting/pasting links is a pain but do this: search the big bad and dirty section for mikef5000 and a third brake light or top case light. If no luck, pm me and i will send u links i have on a computer i have at work tomorrow. i did this a few years ago and feel it was worth the time and few dollars it cost | ||
| Ulysapper |
Found it, thanks Jake. There are actually quite a few threads about this but here's the one from mikef5000. I like it! http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/521239.html?1260337121 | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
IIRC, Mike's top case lights are a bit more sophisticated than mine. I believe his tail light wiring has a resistor in the circuit so the lights aren't full power until you hit the brakes. I installed 4 separate strips into mine. The 2 in the photo above are on with the tail lights, the additional 2 strips come on with the brakes. Also while we're on the topic of visibility and safety.. anyone here used the reflective arrow helmet stickers from Aerostich? I've always liked the idea behind them. Seems to me that when you look over your shoulder in the direction you're about to move, drivers behind would see a quick arrow in that same direction. http://www.aerostich.com/clothing/visibility-prote ction/reflective/arrow-head-lane-change-indicators .html  | ||
| Panhead_dan |
One of my jackets has reflective panels and piping but it's not daytime hi-vis. My headlights are all over the spectrum and I run a bunch of watts during the day, it's really bright. But The absolute best protection I have is the space between my ears. I take the old saying "ride like you are invisible" to an extreme. What I mean is, I ride like every vehicle, animal, pedestrian or even covered areas that could hide suicidal deer are all potential deliberate attempts to kill me. I ride like every vehicle in the left turn lane is going to try to time it just right and take me out. Using this mindset, I am constantly calculating evasive maneuvers to avoid his evil plan. At the same time I'm reading the pavement for defects and other dangers. The rig behind me is moving up -gas it a bit. Maintain the cushion of space always. Always know ahead of time which way to dodge and whether to be ready to brake or (more likely) hammer it in order to throw off the texting suburban driver's left turn timing. You get the idea. Most folks think this kind of extreme defensive driving is ridiculous or way too extreme. I do not believe that. It has been keeping me alive for 58 motorcycles and it does work. It's not hard to do once you get the mindset and can be quite exciting. It actually adds to the quality of the ride. I have given thought to teaching these techniques. It's the best chance we have to survive in my opinion. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I'm with Dan - I don't rely on others to see or notice me (or care that I'm there). I rely on myself - to pay attention to the bonehead on the cellphone, or the bimbo texting about a boy, or the idiot fiddling with crap in his back seat (all of which I encountered TODAY on the way home from work, by the way). I don't count on them. I count on me. I do have brakelight flashers on every bike. I have reflective pinstripe tape on every bike, and on my helmet. I have reflective panels on all my riding gear. I have a hi-viz jacket I wear in the summer, and when I take the plunge for a new winter jacket I'll likely go hi-viz there too. But, I truly believe... Loud pipes don't save lives. Hi Viz doesn't save lives. Bright lights don't save lives. All of those rely on OTHERS to do what they're supposed to be doing in the first place. And, through life experience on many levels...I don't rely on others. PAYING ATTENTION saves lives. So, I pay attention. Enough attention for me, and the other guy, and the guy behind him. Am I infallible? Nope. But at least I'm a known quantity, and it reduces the guesswork a bit. The rest of these flakes? Wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them. | ||
| Nookster |
I use the KRISS modulator. Both lights on all the time. When you flip on the high switch in modulates during the day and goes high beam after dark. That and after riding for 45 years I always EXPECT the cager to do something stupid. It doesn't surprise me when it happens because I'm anticipating it. Thats my mindset when riding all the time. | ||
| Buewulf |
"PAYING ATTENTION saves lives." Paying attention does indeed save lives, but with respect to other drivers, you have to compete for and capture that attention first. Even your own attention needs to be prioritized depending on your particular riding situation. I commute 25 miles one way on six fully congested lanes of traffic at speeds that vary constantly from 0 to 85 mph, sometimes in the blink of an eye, and anywhere in between. Some brilliant traffic engineer also thought it would be a good idea to put the exits and entrances to the freeway in the same place, and the cars and trucks zip and stir around these areas like hornets from a busted hornet's nest as they jockey for lane position. I have seen just about every type of debris imaginable littering the road here from cinder blocks to a riding lawn mower that have fallen from junky pickup trucks, and first sight of the hazard usually comes as the debris jettisons from beneath the car or truck one or two car lengths in front of you that just ran over it, often throwing multiple pieces into the air. Trust me - my mind is engaged. But frankly, the human mind has limits. There are too many variables here to process, and the best you can do is focus on your immediate vicinity which changes constantly. That is why I was interested in passive systems that you guys may believe in. I am doing all I can mentally, so I need to do what I can to help drivers around me use their senses as well. No, you can't rely on or trust other drivers, but that should't be for lack of trying to reach them. | ||
| Uly_man |
"PAYING ATTENTION saves lives." You may notice something about those who have posted here on this subject. That is that they are still here to do it? QED. | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
Uly_man, thanks! I learned something today. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q.E.D. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Ratbuell- I'm with you. I'm sure there are riders that do all that and STILL wind up in the obits, but that seems to be about the safest approach a rider can take. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Hugh - if I'm counting only on myself...and something goes wrong (they are called "accidents" after all)...I've got nobody to blame but myself. And since I own firearms...that's probably best  | ||
| Kublak |
I've only been riding 13 years now, and have nowhere near the experience some of you veterans have. But I agree that your awareness on the bike is the number one precaution you can take. I see it every day on the super slab to work, heads bobbing up n down, double thumbs on the phone. Accidents are that and out of control, but you are your own best protection. I was pushed off the left shoulder of the interstate onto the berm by a driver that began to merge into me. I blew the horn and he jerked back to his lane, then said "screw it", and came over anyway. You are your own best defense, colors and lights may help, but when a cager has blatant disregard for a bike it must be luck like I experienced. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
Rider Safety is my business. I work with local, state, and national agencies. As terrible as being hit by another road user is, this type of crash accounts for only about one in four motorcycle crashes. That's right, just over 25%. One half of motorcycle crashes do not involve an outside factor (other road users, weather, animals, mechanical failure, road defect) and are simply pilot error. Be alert, be defensive, be prepared, be patient. | ||
| Buellerxt |
Good reminder, Mark. We can't hear that too often!  All of it is good advice but that last caution, 'be patient' is a particularly good reminder. Thanks. | ||
| Eulysses |
Maybe add a Glock on your hip to increase the magnitude of your presence... Or at least to return some metal that was aimed at you.  As much as we count on our own awareness and take a defensive posture..."I did not see him" is still the quote all survivors of collision accidents make...whether the bike rider or car driver. So we ride knowing full well that that we are exposed to more trauma in the (probably) inevitable event than a caged driver. Our choice. Trading risk for big grins.  | ||
| Buelldualsport |
Motolights or any of the LED lights with a yellow bulb or yellow cover, mounted low on the forks, near the font axle center line is areal attention getter. A LOT of Police Departments, Sheriff Agencies and Highway Patrol in the NC, SC, GA. VA, TN area have gone to them. Really stand out, either yellow or in white. YRMV Ride Safe |
