| Author | Message | ||
     Uly_man |
First many thanks to Gunter and Pash (ECM-SPY), xopti, TunerPro and many others for there work, posts and input on this subject. They must have put in many thousands of hours into developing these systems. This post is a sort of "grouping" of the basic things I have found out about this subject and, given what I know and past experience, why they make sense to me anyway. A) Any bike/car engine (even the same two off the line) will not run at its best due to inconsistent mechanical build/wear levels. A fine tune can make a std machine all the better but costs so much more to do on a production machine. B) All EFI systems MUST have perfect seals, electrics and electronic parts to work correctly. C) Dynos can be set to anything ie to show a better "than is" HP result and CAN NOT reproduce REAL road riding conditions due to no air drag and such on the bike. Only "back-to-back" tests on the same machine at the same time are of any use. D) The active muffler is designed to cut noise and improve the mid range. Using a aftermarket can should be no problem and I have done so with both 06 and 2010 bikes with no flat spots. The 06 bike worked better with a fueler and the 2010 bike seems ok as it is but I may work on that one to see if I can make it better. E) Do NOT "up-load/burn" maps to your ECM that you have not sourced from your own bikes ECM and worked on yourself. F) If you source a map that you think may be of use to you only use the numbers as a guide to fixing your problem. G) ALWAYS store/back-up at least two saved versions of your original ECM map and in two or more places. A MUST? H) Take the time to lean and understand what it is that you are trying to do. The old adage of "measure twice cut once" is the way to go. These tuner progs are VERY powerful and you need to have an understanding of what they are about. I) NEVER change the timing and/or fuel maps unless you know the reason why. NEVER run a map leaner than the map you have. The timing and a lean (very) map are the ones to watch for (engine damage) more or less. J) Switch off hibernate, hard drive off, power off, WiFi, Bluetooth and any other "off" settings on your laptop while you are working on the bike. K) Pull the lights fuse. L) Go here for the TunerPro PDF set up guide. http://xoptiinside.com M) If unsure about anything - Do not do it. (Message edited by Uly_man on August 27, 2012) | ||
| Tootal |
You hit the dyno part on the head! I've been dialing in carbs for decades and a dyno is only good for dialing in your main jet and you always go one size richer to make up for wind resistance. I only use O2 sensors and electronics to dial in carbs now. It's just so EASY! As I learn more about fuel injection, mostly though ECMSPY, I am appreciating it more and more! | ||
| Uly_man |
Ok so here is the next bit. I have found the acceleration of the 2010 bike a bit "tame", over the 06 bike, so I looked at the "acceleration enrichment" numbers. I still have my old 06 Bin file so compared it to the 2010 Bin file. 06 bike % ---- RPM 200 -- 800 150 -- 1200 40 --- 2500 15 --- 5000 2010 bike %----RPM 200--800 140--1200 30----2500 15----5000 I changed it to this. %----RPM 200--800 145--1200 35----2500 15----5000 The result? Man She FLYs now. The bike now has all the "Go" of my 06 bike, I missed that, with all the best bits of the 2010. A crisp/fast throttle response with that BIG torque that makes V-Twin engines so great. In the lower gears it will go like a "missile" and at 60mph in 5th it still goes like stink. I was running my usual test/liked road route and found myself getting that old "tingly" feeling I used to get with the 06 bike. And riding WAY TO FAST as well, LOL. It is now how a Buell SHOULD be. I also switched off the active muffler. Also did a logged run to check the fueling and AFV but I must have screwed up some place as I did not get any data. Oh well next time I guess. (Message edited by Uly_man on August 27, 2012) | ||
| Portero72 |
Keep posting, Uly MAN! I have long been scared of doing any self tuning(as well as being computer illiterate). I, ALSO miss the power of my 06, and would love to learn how to do this. | ||
| Uly_man |
This is the link to the PDF file to setup TunerPro. Very clear and easy to use. http://xoptiinside.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/doc s/Using_Tunerpro_RT.15590439.pdf (Message edited by uly_man on August 28, 2012) | ||
| Uly_man |
I have now found out how to do a "logged run" and did a 23 min run today. Normal roads and a bit of highway. 99.9 mph max. Mid way temps, humidity and riding. The AFV started at 96.50% and finished on 91.60% with 101.60% max. I did not reset the AFV to 100%. I did not get to WOT as to much traffic and way to scary. If this statement is right "I always make sure that one of my graphs is set to AFV so I can see what is going on. If its higher than 100% you ecm is having to add fuel if its below 100 its removing fuel." the bike is not running lean below 100%. The results of the AFV also hardly changed over the run. It is said that the 08 plus bikes are set richer. My 2010 can always had some "soot" on the outlet so this sounds about right. My new can has almost nothing which in "old school" terms is a good indication of a good/clean fuel burn. At the moment the bike has what I would call a good "road race" feel to it. It has also lost that "strangled" feel it used to have. And its not run in yet and on basic 95 RON fuel. Pulls like a train from 60 in 5th, from 50 in 4th and a good twist of the throttle in 3rd will scare you big time. Wheelies are now easy but with control. | ||
| Portero72 |
I am curious to see if the ECM will relearn its way back to 'stock' over time. Never quite understood how to get around that. | ||
| Chorizo |
Anyone know who I could take my 06 to and have this done central California? Im no expert, but my Uly seems to run fine. Doesn't wheelie without trying but Im always reading how much faster it is after tuning. Part of me says "dont get greedy and f things up" But the other part says "f with it. It'll be great!". | ||
| Uly_man |
These are from my run log and just my own setup. From the top down it is - Temp C, REVs, MPH, AFV, fan duty and IAT step. You can use any of the logged data and setup, scale, colour it any way you like.  This is the "dash" version of the log data. Again you can have it as you like. As you can see it even shows what gear you were in at the time.  (Message edited by uly_man on August 29, 2012) (Message edited by uly_man on August 29, 2012) | ||
| Uly_man |
Ok so why use TunerPro RT over ECM-SPY? TunerPro RT is a generic prog for all cars/bikes that can be used with it and as such you can use it as long as you have the right definition/other files. These are made up by people who want to tune a certain car/bike and not a problem for Buell owners as they have all been done. The "generic" layout, for me anyway, seems to be more logical and intuitive to use than say ECM-SPY. TunerPro RT is also a "one stop" package as it does everything in one prog including logging runs for data. And set it up anyway you like. Very cool. What do you need to use it? A lead (30$), laptop (most have one), the prog, bike files and lead driver (all free). Why bother getting into this? One it will let you tune your bike if needed and two it will show you if you have any sensor/other engine management problems with your bike so you may not need to "part out" components trying to fix a problem. Something that could cost a small fortune and really not the way to go for many reasons. Ok I grant you that messing about with your bikes ECM is not for everyone and you will need to "step up to the plate" to get what you want but thats life. No effort no reward? Saying that though the rewards are BIG in this case, VERY well worth the effort and cost almost nothing. My time on this has paid for itself many times over so far. | ||
| Portero72 |
I like how you are going about this, Uly_man. I may dive into this one day soon. I hope you will not mind me asking you a few questions WHEN I get stumped. | ||
| Uly_man |
And while I am at it? I have, but not used it, a MSN laptop that runs for 4 hours plus even with the screen on and using Wi-Fi so you should be able to get a real long logged run if needed. It is an amazing tool and works great. Modern techno stuff, LOL. Anyway a long run will log problems like VR output/spikes and the like. | ||
| Uly_man |
Portero72 - Any time, Sir. One of the things that is so great about this bike is that you can do this sort of thing yourself, unlike the EBR ECMs, without paying BIG money for the prog even if you CAN get it? Today the only money in anything to do with computer stuff is in the prog and, unlike the past, they are now trying to protect that IE blocking access to that prog. Or in other words you have to pay a dealer or other to work your problem. | ||
| Motorbike |
Uly_man, can you make changes on the EBR ECM with TunerPro? Can I send you the EBR ECM from my 08 XT and have you dial it in? My bike runs fine when warm but seems a little off when started cold. Just curious, thanks! | ||
| Reepicheep |
In theory you can make changes to the EBR ECM, but you are in uncharted territory. Even simple things like a TPS reset risks destroying the EBR ECM (AFAIK). | ||
| Jcbikes |
Can you do the acceleration enrichment with ecmspy? If so, were is it located in the program. I have not been able to find it. | ||
| Spacecapsule1 |
haven't heard of this EBR ecm issue. I sure hope it's a non-issue because I just started data logging and updating fuel maps with tuner-pro a couple days ago... with my EBR ecm. haven't had any issues.... | ||
| Uly_man |
I only used ECM-SPY to switch off the AMC and TPS resets on the 06 bike as thats all it needed. I have not looked for anything else. Just use TunerPro everything is easy to find. Thats why I use it. The EBR ECM I do not know. It is said not but who can tell for sure. Spacecapsule1 - Any updates on this would be helpful. | ||
| Uly_man |
"Uly_man, can you make changes on the EBR ECM with TunerPro? Can I send you the EBR ECM from my 08 XT and have you dial it in? My bike runs fine when warm but seems a little off when started cold. Just curious, thanks!" I would like to help but it does not quite work that way. My bike is not the same for a start. I would say you are better of sending it back to EBR for them to check out/test. | ||
| Mad_doctor |
Where can you get a cable for Tunepro/ECMspy, are they the same? | ||
| Spacecapsule1 |
The extent of my tuning experience is limited to data logging and updating the fuel maps in various areas based on the history average in tunerpro. I literally have only 2 days experience at this and can't really tell if i'm doing any good or not. I just don't know enough about it. There are so many changes you can do other than fuel maps.... but so far, i can change the fuel maps, burn them to the ecm and download them from the ecm to verify the changes are in place. To me the fuel isn't so much an issue as timing. Timing is the main issue on my bike and after several flashes from EBR, they just wouldn't listen to me about the timing problem so I decided to try it myself. for a cable check out xopti's web site. Yes they're the same for ecmspy or tunerpro. | ||
| Uly_man |
Spacecapsule1 - I would be VERY wary of changing any of the timing values at the moment. It is the big one for doing damage to the engine. Why do you think you have a timing issue? Have you checked the static timing is right as you should do it before any fuel map changes. Try comparing the EBR map with your OEM map to see any changes in the timing values. If you can not find a "made up lead" you can easy buy a lead and (4 pin Male) plug and make it up yourself. You just need to crimp the pins on. The details are on the ECM-SPY site. It uses three pins but fit the fourth as it acts as a cable strain. I also take off the rubber seal to make disconnection easier. Best to pull it out with the plug and NOT with the lead as well. | ||
| Spacecapsule1 |
Pinging at various RPMs and TPSs regardless of fuel type. I'm not doing anything drastic, just going to retard the timing a bit in the "ping zone"... | ||
| Uly_man |
What is your definition of "pinging"? No matter what ANYONE says these bikes will run fine from stock. If it is not it is something else. Changing a fuel or timing map will not cure a problem caused by a Earth, sensor or other fault. You are a computer Guy and know the logic of how these things work. Try stepping back and thinking on it a while. And did you check the static timing? It is very much the thing to do first even 50 years ago, LOL. Best of luck. | ||
| Spacecapsule1 |
Static timing is fixed on 08's. Didn't mean to de-rail your thread. I was just posting that I'm actually working on an EBR ecm because there was some doubt that it could be done. So, for the record, it CAN be done. Using tuner-pro only. Please continue kind sir. I think many people will be interested especially for learning to use tuner pro and for sharing tips on smoothing out the fuel and timing maps. | ||
| Tootal |
Great conversation since I just got a note back from EBR about their Race ecm. First off I was scolded for using ECM SPY to do a tps reset and to look at the timing tables. The EBR ecm caused me severe pinging, much worse than the stock ecm which also pings. I told them that I knew they had different downloads for different exhaust systems but had they thought of making a different download for ethenol fuel? They said no but that might be something to consider. I know from personal experience that if I get real gasoline my bike runs perfect. Starts and runs smoother and it never pings! As soon as I'm forced to run ethenol it's just not right. On my 06 I took about 5 degrees off manually and that helps but I can feel a performance difference on the top end so that's not a good answer to the problem. I too was wanting to pull some timing out in certain places to help with the fuel issue. I was also told by EBR that if I sent both my stock ecm and the race ecm to them they could set my tps for the race ecm so I could just plug and play. This winter I might do that. I'm hoping they might do an ethenol set up too but the time and expense to put into something they don't even sell would be awesome but most likely unjustified. | ||
| Uly_man |
Spacecapsule1 - No problem and thank you for the valued input. I found with the 06 bike the better the fuel the better it ran. This engine is in a high state of tune, almost maxed out, and the higher the tune the better the fuel needed. Pinging or what we call "pinking" is mostly low grade fuel and changing the timing may help some but will not cure the problem. I would suggest if the fuel is that bad you might want to try a fuel additive. That is the normal thing to do even though its a bit of a pain on a bike. Remember you are trying to get energy from the fuel but if it is not there no amount of re-maps of the fuel/timing will produce that power. | ||
| Spacecapsule1 |
I've tried all different grades of fuel and still get the "pinking" around 4100 rpm until 5k rpm, then you can feel a surge of acceleration... What I ended up doing was resetting my AFV and starting over with datalogging. After resetting the AFV I noticed the pinging was gone. What do you guys think? The AFV was previously at 83. After resetting and a 3.5 hour ride its down to 93. | ||
| Sharkguy |
Thanks for writing this up guys. I have an 09 and would love to learn how to tune it. I need to get a cable and try it out. I've got tuner pro on my laptop and need to learn how to apply it. Probably not going to mess with the timing just fueling. I have both the race ecm and the stock ecm so I'll be messing with the stocker. | ||
| Uly_man |
Spacecapsule1 - Where did you reset the AFV in Tunerpro. Is it the AFV REAR box? Mine is at 87.4. |
