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Buewulf
| | Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 12:38 pm: | 
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Adventure bikes, by nature of their intentions, need to be function over form
+1 That's what makes them beautiful to me. |
Conchop
| | Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 10:18 pm: |
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Its all about some fusion. I really liked my Uly, but my FXR or my custom Vic's ran really well plus they had the "look" that made the American bike industry a lot of money. Its a Corvette or Shelby or Harley Earl Skylark or Jag XKE quest to find that certain form and function in an ADV bike.
http://www.atombombcustom.com/~atombomb/index.php? option=com_content&view=article&id=114&Itemid=241 |
Trojan
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 08:08 am: |
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but my FXR or my custom Vic's ran really well plus they had the "look" that made the American bike industry a lot of money.
Which is exactly the style that adventure bikes really don't want.
You have to remember that Adventure bikes are desigend to tour on rough roads and unpaved remote roads (although 99.9% only ever go off road to bump up the kerb into the garage!).
If BMW/KTM/EBR styled their adventure bikes like an FXR or Victory they wouldn't sell any at all, certainly not outside the US anyway.
BMW will however have their new 'Lo Rider' cruiser models available soon which should fill your styling niche criteria very nicely.
This is the show concept model that was shown a few years ago, but the production version has been spotted testing recenly looking very similar (exept for the exhaust, which is more traditionally mounted than shown here unfortunately). |
Conchop
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 10:29 am: |
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Trojan - If the right styling fusion could be accomplished, I think that would make them sell by the train load. All ADV bikes have a certain performance level that is up to a point and they're all getting better. They all follow the styling of the leader in the genre, BMW.
I don't think that logic will hold up in a double blind test. Park a variety of bikes from across the ages and genres in a row. Have average people - riders and non riders - rate the aesthetics of these bikes. I bet a nickel that the GS would be at the bottom.
Plus, a lot of ADV styling may claim form over function, but in many cases I see it as nothing more than an excuse to save money by using cheaper goods and questionable offshore manufacturing. ADV riders demand more out of their bikes than most other riders.
Its just that IMHO, we shouldn't have to be relegated to ride something that looks so funky because the number one bike in the genre has chosen a "look". I'm hoping the stylists at ERR can break the mold, so to speak, in overall performance, comfort, and aesthetics.
Jag XKE - Harley Earl's Skylark, - Superglides - Duesenberg - BSA Lightning - Cadillac - Jeep Grand Wagoneer - may sound old school - BUT they set standards for luxury, looks, and performance in their time. IMHO, its what's needed in the ADV bike. |
Buewulf
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 12:41 pm: |
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we shouldn't have to be relegated to ride something that looks so funky because the number one bike in the genre has chosen a "look"
I certainly get your point, but it is a huge financial risk to break a mold. There is a reason that virtually all cruisers that sell well look the way they do. H-D has arguably established what a cruiser should look like. Same with sportbikes (probably the most function driven segment there is along with MX bikes.) Granted the fairings give designers a more versatile canvas to work with, but when it comes down to it, those bikes all "look" the same.
In marketing speak, it is called a "defined market", and once a market is defined there are rules you are almost required to play by in order to produce a product that will sell well.
For better or worse, BMW's GS has defined the adventure bike market in both heavy and now middleweight classes - it HAS set the standards for looks, performance and versatility in its given market. It IS the XKE, Skylark, etc. for its class. To me, even the "fiercely independent" Uly X pays homage to the GS design which I believe is the main purpose of the "beak".
KTM's, Yamaha's and even Suzuki's offerings have (IMO) un-GS-like styling in so much as function (or the illusion of function) allows. But their intended / imaginary purpose is still evident in their designs - that element of utility and versatility made famous by the GS. There probably will be a new game-changing design introduced one day that will dominate ADV design practices for a decade or two. If that new, fresh design does come around, I'd bet that there is a 9 out 10 chance that the new GS standard will be... wait for it... a future BMW GS model. |
Conchop
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 10:21 pm: |
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Buewuf - I understand your points. I reckon there always is the customizers like Unit or American Sport Bike for individualizing the bike. When I owned my dealership, we had a lot of fun doing trick work with bolt ons.
A new bike in a crate is a blank canvas. I just hope to see a bit more to work with if there ever is a Ulysses replacement. Beaks and duck bills are off my list but I have to respect those who find it appealing.
You raise a good point about the bikes within their genres looking the same. Reminded me of a Myrtle Beach Bike week when homebuilt Kit Choppers were in vogue. After a few snorts of moon shine, they all started looking the same. |
Trojan
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2012 - 05:50 am: |
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Its just that IMHO, we shouldn't have to be relegated to ride something that looks so funky because the number one bike in the genre has chosen a "look".
I think you have missed the point on this one. People buy the GS, and it is the number one ADV bike in the world, because they LIKE the styling, not in spite of it.
People who don't like the styling buy something else.
Other manufacturers are chasing the BMW sales model and are building bikes that look similar (or in Triumph case are just blatant rip off BMW copies!) because they want to take a slice of the GS market.
Honda,Yamaha, Aprilia, Triumph and Ducati struggle to match the GS in terms of sales or design of their ADV variants, and are nowhere near in terms of sales figures or following. The Ducati Multistrada was flavour of the month for a while, but even that can't match the GS for longevity and sales success.
I'm sure someone else will set the bar higher before long, and things will move on to the next stage. However the GS styling is here to stay for a long time yet, and if anything will get more extreme rather than less. The next generation water cooled GS models will undoubtedly be very similar following the 'family' styling and will sell equally as well as the current 1200 and prevous 1150,1100 models have.
So long as there are people adding their names on a long waiting list to buy one, and BMW have no problem selling every one they can make, you can't knock it  |
Conchop
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2012 - 10:15 pm: |
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Trojan - You might be right about the GS styling popularity. It looks like somebody Uly - ized or GS - ified a Griso
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Xbimmer
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2012 - 04:35 am: |
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Well I'll put my $0.02 in again, since subjective taste can be objective.
but my FXR or my custom Vic's ran really well plus they had the "look" that made the American bike industry a lot of money.
Which is exactly the style that adventure bikes really don't want.
You have to remember that Adventure bikes are desigend to tour on rough roads and unpaved remote roads...
Which is exactly the reason I bought my Uly which by the way I don't consider an adventure bike. For me it has succeeded as a comfortable sport bike with long legs that sucks up crappy Third World rated SoCA backroads loaded to the gills and sometimes 2-up, at velocities and angles that would be ripping away drag pipes, footboards, forward mount controls and all that other junk from the chassis of that more stylish genre of motorcycle while pitching its operator(?) into a ditch.
I bought this bike, and I'll buy the next one, based on how efficiently it will move me to my destination in the manner in which I prefer, that is, RIDING and not profiling on what may be more stylish. I don't give a rat's butt what anybody else thinks about my choice of ride, or my next one which I'm pretty sure will be another non-stylish bike. |
Mikef5000
| | Posted on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 12:02 pm: |
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I think my problem is I actually take my adventure bike on off-road adventures, which causes me to look at the whole category differently than the vast majority of riders.
I don't think that logic will hold up in a double blind test. Park a variety of bikes from across the ages and genres in a row. Have average people - riders and non riders - rate the aesthetics of these bikes. I bet a nickel that the GS would be at the bottom.
Sure, we can do that... but then we need to ride them. That's why you buy a bike right? To ride it? So this is going to be an adventure ride. That's why you're looking at adventure bikes right? Let's throw some slab in there to get to the good stuff. The smokey mountains are exactly 420 miles of super-slab from my driveway; should be doable with a reasonable amount of comfort, preferably with only one stop in the middle for food/gas. Then some nice twisty pavement to get deep into the hills; put the hammer down, it's not often you get in these kind of twisties. Roads get smaller, the pavement starts breaking up, before you know it it's more gravel than asphalt. Things are getting rough. Then you see the sign; that abandoned mountain road going off into the thick woods. It's not much more than a quad-trail. Long forgotten, the gravel that once was here has given way to dirt. Some rocky spots, some steep hills, and maybe a muddy spot or two. Perhaps it was the mud or a root, but chances are you almost dropped it once. Maybe you even did drop it. Who cares, that's what it's made for, didn't hurt anything, no stylish fairings to get messed up here, nothing fragile hanging off the sides.
Eventually you pop out the other side, back onto pavement on the opposite side the the mountain ridges, completely soaked in sweat, relieved that you and the bike pulled through another epic adventure. With a perma-grin and story to tell when you get back home/to the campground/to the hotel.
A dual sport couldn't have made the trek down here. A street bike couldn't have made it through that forgotten path. This is why you're looking at adventure bikes.
How does your double blind test work out now? Which bikes are at the top?
This is precisely why I bought an adventure bike. It's not exaggerated one bit; it was my day last Thursday. In fact, I understated it, because I know most of you wouldn't consider true single track, which is what the trail really was. On my big ugly adventure bike, with 4 other ugly adventure bikes. I am out of the ordinary. I know better than to think the average adventure bike rider pulls crap like this. But this is what the bikes are built for. And this is why adventure bikes are just ••••••• awesome. |
Conchop
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 02:04 pm: |
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Tour Glides - Super Glides - Vic's - etc etc - and a Uly - in rural WV, all of mine have been on mud roads and in hay fields. Sometimes its ugly and I've had my hands full of bike, but the bikes always made it out. Not too many riders would dare put lil precious where I've put them, but where I live, there are lots of out back areas to explore. Trail riding and motocross in the 70's helps with the balls.
All bikes clean up with a clear creek or a hose and a brush. So IMHO you can do a lot of ADV riding and look good doing it. If they could just hit the right buttons! |
Ejbeert
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 07:06 am: |
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you can use ax to peel an apple but i'll just stick to my paring knife. |
Uly_man
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 04:37 pm: |
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I wish people would not keep "banging on" about this subject. Anyone who knows about going from the road to "off road" knows why it does not work very well. Weight, wheel size and rubber are key to, as is skill, to off road riding. |
Buewulf
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 06:39 pm: |
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I wish people would not keep "banging on" about this subject.
BANG! BANG! |
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