| Author | Message | ||
     Hughlysses |
Details here: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/406 2/685265.html?1340888395 | ||
| Djohnk |
I already did it, thanks | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Yes, a grant is the answer for EBR - that'll do the trick. Give him a grant to build bikes nobody wants to buy...maybe it never occurred to him to try building bikes people actually want to buy. Free enterprise is a wonderful equalizer - don't give the public what they want and you're history. No grants - no welfare. I just hope he doesn't cry on YouTube if he doesn't get it...very unnerving. Erik has 'jumped the shark' more than once, already. ... | ||
| Uly_man |
Sounds like a "NO" to me J777. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
"Sounds like a "NO" to me J777." I'm still on the fence...  | ||
| Hughlysses |
I'm with you Johnboy, I'd much rather this money went to a bunch of greenies with absolutely NO technical experience who want to start up a solar energy company to help save the planet.  | ||
| Nallac |
Give him a grant to build bikes nobody wants to buy...maybe it never occurred to him to try building bikes people actually want to buy. Hey I along with a lot of other people want to buy one, we just have one problem....a lack of money.... | ||
| Ironhead1977 |
I agree with Johnboy, seems like this is a hobby instead of a business. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Guys- how many small businesses do you know that wouldn't go for a chance to get $250k cash to invest in their business? How does EBR trying to get a $250k grant make it Erik's hobby? From all indications, he's already got the cash to start producing motorcycles. EBR is earning it by doing engineering work for Hero motorcycles. That doesn't mean EBR couldn't use another $250k to invest in hiring another guy or two, or buying advertising, or funding showing up at a Cycle World motorcycle show, or whatever. Do you seriously wish EBR was another big monolithic corporation? A company with a CEO with a business degree (no technical or riding background at all) that works in a glass palace somewhere with no more connection to the people that purchase his products than he has to the ants that run across his window sill? I'll take "hobby" over that crap any day of the week. SOMEBODY is going to get this $250k- wouldn't you just as soon see it be an American motorcycle company? | ||
| Johnboy777 |
"Hey I along with a lot of other people want to buy one; we just have one problem....a lack of money...." Exactly my point - build bikes that people want to buy (and can afford to buy) - bikes are not a necessity, they are all toys (high maintenance, impractical transportation at best). Or build one for a million – then you just need to sell one. He's priced his bikes right out of the market. Like IronHead said, seems like a hobby? Or maybe he’s really a star in his own rock band (drugs, sex and rock ‘n roll - yeah, all that’s plenty of fun) and bike’s are his hobby now...which is which? EBR's tag line is “Fiercely Independent” Now it can be “Fiercely Independent – God I Hope we get that Grant” ... | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Heresy is no fun when the zealots retreat. ... | ||
| Hooper |
I'm stealing that quote! | ||
| Hughlysses |
He's priced his bikes right out of the market. John- you do understand that the ~$40k EBR 1190RS was strictly a means to get back into motorcycle production and specifically into AMA Superbike racing, right? EBR clearly intends to begin producing reasonably priced motorcycles just as soon as they can. They've been working with a very small crew of engineers and since the contract with Hero they've apparently brought more engineers on board to design the full range of EBR streetbikes. EBR Geoff May posted just this week that production of these bikes will be happening in the near future. | ||
| Court |
Likewise . . . a debate with the cerebrally sleight is neither fun nor productive. | ||
| Pons |
I think compared to the price of a new ST/FJR/RT his bike was competitive in price. WE need someone other than Harley/Polaris making bikes and representing the US in World Superbike/Moto GP besides the Italians and Japanese. He's up to the challenge unlike Harley Davidson. I'd also like to say that the fit and finish on Eric Buells bikes is much better than on other brand in my opinion. | ||
| Buewulf |
Likewise . . . a debate with the cerebrally sleight is neither fun nor productive. I disagree completely! It can be fun indeed. Here is my cerebrally sleight offering: I am not a Buell enthusiast. I am a motorcycle enthusiast, and EBR is a motorcycle company that wants to take it to the next level which excites me. That is an endearing and worthy cause. At least that is what I want to believe they intend to do. Since I don't know what they intend to use the money for, I wouldn't give them my vote. I would vote if they intended to use it towards going in the direction of producing bikes for the masses. I would not vote for them to get 250K to go racing next season. "Something really cool" is just a little too abstract for me. Someone else deserves the grant if that is the only explanation I can get. (Maybe they do explain their intention better somewhere, but I haven't looked into it.) | ||
| Buellerxt |
I agree, Buewulf. Well said. I'm not big on 'grants' in the first place but if a company wants one they should make their case for the intended use of the funds. Voting blindly with my fingers crossed is not my thing. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
So what if they use it to go "racing"... what if they win more races... wouldn't that enable them to get even more money from investors and/or hire more people to develop more/better bikes? | ||
| Uly_man |
Today $250k, even in a small company, is nothing. I would not even cover the "cheesy nibbles" at a well known "World race bike" meeting. EBR is welcome to the money, if it helps any, but the chance of them putting a reliable bike on the world market is almost zero and they know it. | ||
| Court |
I actually understand and agree with your point. You've distinguished yourself here, well . . simply my making it and stating what you think rather than farting in the phone booth and leaving as has come to be the practice. The $250,000 would cover roughly 2 weeks of racing and I would doubt that's the intended use. But, and your point is a good one, absent knowing the specifics some will choose not to participate or even perhaps find something on the list they feel more worthy or aligned with their values. I, quite frankly, was surprised to see thousands of companies . .that's very cool. It's very difficult at present of legitimate American companies to raise capital. The health care debacle of the last week is a perfect example. Imagine you are a small firm in Wisconsin . . poised on the cusp of tremendous growth and ready to hire 600 people (which would make you the largest single job creator in the state of WI) and that you didn't have a CLUE what the penalty . . . er, wait TAX . . . .no that's penalty . . no TAX was going to cost to hire these folks. There is no way, under the current system, you can, with any degree of accuracy predict what overhead will be, what fuel costs will be, what the R&D costs will be . . . frankly, at this time and under the current administration, you'd about have to be a blooming idiot to start a new business. $250,000 is not much . . . it'd cover about 4.5 hours of the project I am currently working on (in addition we face $400,000 per day if we run past schedule and our next outage window is 1 year hence . . so think a minimum of $400,000 x 365 days - and you wonder why I don't gamble?) . . but I also know that EBR has a host of folks, already interviewed and vetted, they are just waiting on funding to hire. Needless to say . . there is a serial order to all of this. No way you can sell a consumer priced bike (even one that's been ready for nearly 2 years) without the dealer support staff, marketing, warranty, tech pubs, media, parts, accessories and homologation staff in place. Best thing to do while you're putting this together . . . find a large company and sell your engineering services and create a new profit center that is closely aligned with your core business. Race to prove your engineering mettle, build your name as one of the top ( . . in the top 3 anyway) teams racing and show that you can plan and execute. Tough stuff. You and I have watched lots of names come and go here . . . Roehr, Big Dog, Motus, Excelsior-Henderson, Indian . . all tits up (Motus is still hanging around) . . .and I'm hoping that the folks at EBR can make the plan work. By the way . . as you read . . . it was one of the EBR employees who found and got hooked up with the Chase Small Business Grant. Kinda cool how the employees are all so committed to making this stuff work. I am pleased to report that there are about a half a dozen long time Buell folks who have recently shown back up. Bottom line is . . . your logic is sound. I voted (although I hate to and intend to wipe out the Facebook thing soon since employers are now monitoring) but you certainly need not or can choose a firm you feel more deserving. Court | ||
| Uly_man |
Very cool, Court. After HD dumped Buell I always thought it would be a good idea for Buell owners to "buy" into EBR. Ok so only small amounts but it would "add up" in the long run. In the world of today it would be something special and lets face it we need to do something as the "OLD WAYS" just do not work anymore. | ||
| Buelldualsport |
Court et al Well written and the logic is very sound on all the posters part. Court: Guess your project is a bit larger than ours, our daily overage penalty is only "$100,000" per day, but heck its only a $1.3 B company. LOL Thanks (Message edited by Buelldualsport on June 30, 2012) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Whats cool about EBR is that $250k *could* create something significant. For Harley, $250k would probably not even cover overhead and project management just to propose a project, much less doing actual work. | ||
| Buewulf |
So what if they use it to go "racing"... what if they win more races... wouldn't that enable them to get even more money from investors and/or hire more people to develop more/better bikes? I understand the theory behind "win on Sunday, sell on Monday"; and for the Big 4 and Ducati, there is some relevance to that. However, Triumph is the only motorcycle success story in recent history, and they did it without using precious resources on a racing effort. I fully get the difference in circumstance between John Bloor's Triumph resurrection and EBR, and I am not trying to draw a direct analogy here. I get why the company is called EBR and not EBMC. But I also don't think banks or potential investors want to see a racing budget sucking up resources that can be used for development of products, capabilities, markets, etc. That is a tough sell unless you can find a way to keeps those businesses aligned but separate. Sorry I wandered a little off topic. Court, I agree with everything you said. Tough stuff indeed. And to expand on my point more, I have to disagree with others who say 250K isn't much. To many companies on that list, I assure you it is. And it could also be a key to four to five times that amount in financing or other investment. That is why I think EBR should make a better attempt at selling their case. I want badly to see them succeed, but I also want to be convinced they have a plan to use the money wisely. Their getting it may come at the expense of someone else's dream or livelihood. | ||
| Crusty |
Yup; Badweb has indeed morphed from a Buell Enthusiasts forum into a political debate enthusiasts forum. Whatever you do; don't do anything that might help a struggling small company succeed (like vote in a poll that will cost you nothing but a few seconds). |
