| Author | Message | ||
     Bpt |
It has been a little over 8000 miles since the front tire and wheel bearings were done on my XT. I know the front tire will last another 2000 but one of the front bearings already bit the dust. Just not right the tires last longer than the bearings. Notice they are SKF bearings, not H-D replacements.    | ||
| Ourdee |
Did you wipe the grease out of them? | ||
| Bpt |
They are just as I opened them. The bad/broken bearing is dry and was on the brake side. The other bearing has some grease in it and is still smooth. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Just not right the tires last longer than the bearings. That shouldn't be the case, something else is going on. Since they're not OEM, what's the history behind the replacement? Who installed them and how? How long were the bearings on the shelf? My original NTN's went 50K, the next OEM KBC's are at 35K now and looked great when I checked and greased them the other day. That cage on the broken bearing looks wrong. Check the spacer dimensions to see whether it's been crushed. And where did the grease go??? | ||
| Bpt |
The previous owner changed the bearings, so I don't know who installed them and how. I have put over 5k of the 8k miles since the bearing change. I think I would have noticed the grease being spun out of the bearing, but I can't say I did. I do ride in the rain and if a seal was not good it would not take much to wash it out. It did not take much effort to get the seals out after I removed the bearings. The spacer looked okay, no visible signs of problems. I did not measure it. I installed Buell bearings this time. Made sure they were greased, and I will check them when I replace the tire. I made sure to do brake side first and not over press the other side and change the offset. I torqued the axle on the low side of spec also. Time will tell. | ||
| Pontlee77 |
how do you remove the seals with out spoiling them? | ||
| Uly_man |
"Just not right the tires last longer than the bearings." Well yes and no? You have, as Xbimmer said, lost the grease which has nothing to do with bearing life. You have had a bad or damaged seal. SOMETHING TO REMEMBER since no one has mentioned it before that I know of. These wheel bearings are a standard size and fit many things. There are however TWO grades/specification of them. One is the normal type we need and the other has slightly looser ballrace internals. | ||
| Reepicheep |
The front wheel has a spacer also, right? Perhaps somebody over torqued the axle, collapsed the spacer, and now the bearings have a side load. Replace the spacer with the next bearing change, they are not that expensive. | ||
| Rwven |
The SKF's I put in the front of mine didn't last all that long either... | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
I've had pretty good luck with KOYO's | ||
| Timan |
As a new rider to Buells, but can document 350-400K miles on other bikes, I am amazed at this bearing issue. I have never had to replace wheel bearings on bikes even with 60-80K miles. If you have quality bearings, what is the failure mode? Not trying to be a jerk, I just don't get it. | ||
| Buellerxt |
No problem, Roger. A LOT of us didn't 'get it'. I put 100,000 miles on a Harley with zero wheel bearing problems and know others with greater miles and no problems. This was a bad design, particularly in the rear. As you say/infer wheel bearings are not a usual problem on bikes. Get the 2010 rear wheel, cross your fingers, and all should be good. I did and it has!  (Message edited by buellerxt on June 05, 2012) | ||
| Motorbike |
The sprocket side rear bearing failed at 7300 miles on my 08 XT. Funny thing is, when that bearing failed, the one on the rotor side looked like brand new yet. Grease was nice and clean too. I went with the 2010 rear wheel setup. So far, so good. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I had 30k on a 9sx with no bearing failures. I'm at 22k on the Uly with no bearing failures (though I bought it at 10k, so maybe the previous owner did something). I pack an extra set of rear bearings and the spacer for long road trips, and I give the rear wheel a quick visual inspection before every second or third ride. And I check the bearings carefully with every tire change. And I always use a torque wrench when I install. I think some cases of failures were manufacturing defects (either the bearing or tolerance stack up lead to failures). But I think many failures were related to a failure to follow the installation instructions. | ||
| Motorbike |
I agree with you Reepicheep but in my case, the wheel had never been off since it left the factory. (I assume my dealer never had the wheel off because I bought the bike brand new. If they did, I never heard about it.) | ||
| Backroad_hog |
I have 26K on my O7 and I have checked the bearings every time I have had the wheels off and I am still on the original bearings from the factory | ||
| Skifastbadly |
One of the presumed causes of bearing failure is the inability for the wheel to properly drain water...some folks have gone as far as to drill holes in their hubs to facilitate drainage. If this is truly a cause, then your experience would be, to some extent, a function of how often you ride in wet conditions. Since I live in Seattle, for me it's 'a lot'. And my bearings went at about 13K. | ||
| Uly_man |
"I agree with you Reepicheep but in my case, the wheel had never been off since it left the factory. (I assume my dealer never had the wheel off because I bought the bike brand new. If they did, I never heard about it.)" So do I but? I have had two Ulys. A 06 and a 2010. On the 5k service the 06 needed rears and the 2010 needed fronts. The 06 needed fronts at 12k. My conclusion on the bearing issue is this. First they were not always fitted/done up right from the factory. The second is that they are not always fitted/done up right on a refit. Tire fitters do not always do it right either and that also can damage the belt as well. The other is people treat the wheel bearing system like any other bike and just "whack em up". Not good. The XB front and rear is much the same as any bike so what is NOT the same? The only things that are not are the alloy spacers and the belt. I do not think the belt is the problem but the alloy spacer could be. The thing that you MUST REMEMBER is that a new alloy spacer, like in the factory, is not pre crushed which is why it is done in a certain way to get the correct spacing. But unless it is perfect, and it MUST BE PERFECT, it will put the inner and outer bearing rings out and cause faster wear. And it only needs to be a tinyyyyyyy amount OUT to screw them up. It also goes for the seals as well and will allow water to enter the bearing and hub as well. The BIG problem is that there is NO easy way to measure if the bearing is "IN LINE" with the alloy spacer. And thats the bad design issue not the system in itself. I think a steel spacer would cure all the problems. Just my 2 Euros worth. | ||
| Motorbike |
I thought I once read about someone that was machining Stainless Steel spacers for our bikes but I can't seem to find it. Or did I just dream that one night? If any of you machinist types are interested, I would think you could sell a few of these spacers. Not sure where you would find the exact length they need to be though. Is that indicated in our service manuals? (I'm at work now and can't look.) If the pre-crush thing Uly_man speaks of is true, it may be next to impossible to know how long the spacer should really be. Thanks. (Message edited by motorbike on June 06, 2012) | ||
| Uly_man |
"If the pre-crush thing Uly_man speaks of is true, it may be next to impossible to know how long the spacer should really be." You would need to fit a set of bearings in the wheels without the spacer and measure the space between the inner bearing rings. In engineering terms it is easy enough and I would use normal mild steel. No need for SS. Its just my idea but having noted the "VERY LOOSE" spacing of some of my wheel spacers I am none to happy with the situation. But what do I know apart from the fact that bearings are part of my profession as an engineer. | ||
| Motorbike |
You would need to fit a set of bearings in the wheels without the spacer and measure the space between the inner bearing rings If you do that, you will ruin one bearing when you pull it back out to install your newly machined spacer. Oh well, bearings are relatively cheap, like me. | ||
| Joypipe |
I have a 2008 XB12X, 9700 miles. On my 2nd front and rear tires. Started to ride to work today but heard a metal on metal sound gratting sound ... intermitant from the rear. I got off and walked the bike but couldn't reproduce the sound. Sitting on the bike and walking backward produced a few sounds but not as noticable. I've noticed recently after riding in alot of rain that I had a muddy/rust colored fluid that seems to have spun out from the brake side rear. I was hoping it wasn't a bearing but thats what I suspect. Looking at the bearings on both sides the belts side seems to have some grease around it and the brake side looks clean with no noticable grease. Am I troubleshooting the right part? Other problems with the patient: I also have a read head oil leak at the top of the head and the oil has fouled my cooling fan now. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
Joy, if it looks like this:  You can be pretty sure it's the bearing | ||
| Bpt |
After reading all the posts, I can't believe the inconsistency in how long these bearings last. Brand does not seem to matter as much as upkeep and installation. I guess time will tell on this new set. | ||
| Nobuell |
I do not believe there is a pre-crush on the bearings as mentioned. If the bearings are installed correctly the last bearing is installed only as far as required by the spacer length when the race contacts the races. If the inner races are just touching the spacer and the spacer is correctly perpendicular to the race, the insertion depth is correct with no side load. I believe the alloy spacer is readily crushed when over torqued leading to race side loads. The correct stainless steel spacer length would be the same as a new aluminum spacer. Personally, I under torque the axle to minimize the chance of spacer crush. In general, I believe that bearing failure is due to all of the items mentioned. The belt can be to tight placing a high load on an undersized bearing. The bearings are not sealed, they are shielded. An external seal system is required to properly protect the bearings. Purchasing a 2010 wheel is the only reasonable alternative. | ||
| Uly_man |
"I do not believe there is a pre-crush on the bearings as mentioned." There is, on the spacer, and thats the reason for the HD workshop way of doing it. Why would you do it this way otherwise. The density of alloy depends on the grade and type it is. "I believe the alloy spacer is readily crushed when over torqued leading to race side loads." As I do. The problem is some do not do things the way they should be done. "The bearings are not sealed, they are shielded." They are not "waterproof" thats for sure but I have NEVER had a problem with them on a bike and thats a LOT of bikes and miles over 25 years in all weather conditions. "Purchasing a 2010 wheel is the only reasonable alternative." It would be the perfect fix apart from the fact that at least 3 people here have reported failed bearings with the 2010 rear wheel. Clearly there is still a problem. | ||
| Froggy |
Were any of those failures not related to installation error? The only two failures I know of were both due to improper installation, which is also a common failure on the older wheel. | ||
| Buellerxt |
The only problems, not failures, with the 2010 wheel that I have read about were installation problems where the thin outside spacer was left on the tire changing machines. Have there been 'failures'? What are the details? Thanks. | ||
| Motorbike |
If the bearings are installed correctly the last bearing is installed only as far as required by the spacer length when the race contacts the races. If the inner races are just touching the spacer and the spacer is correctly perpendicular to the race, the insertion depth is correct with no side load. Very well said. You are exactly right on this. Since the second bearing DOES NOT get pressed in until the outer race seats on the shoulder in the wheel, the spacer could be a few thousandths long and would not be a problem. Keep in mind that when pressing the second bearing in, both races must be in the same plane as each other. Also, during the installation of the second bearing, the first bearing races must be supported so they are in line with each other. Now, on the other hand, if the spacer is short for any reason and the outer race of the second bearing seats on the wheel before the inner race touches the spacer, the bearings will have a huge side load when the axle is torqued. I was wondering about the tolerances on these wheels too (since they are made in China). If the distance between the bearing seating surface in the wheel is greater than the length of the spacer, even just thousandths, the bearings will have a side load and eat themselves up. What bugs me is the fact that my 08 bearing fail at 7300 miles only had one of the bearings that completely failed. The other looked brand new. If the fail was caused by side loading, both bearings should have been going bad at the same time as the pressure would be the same on each. Uly_man, please tell me you agree with all of this. I know you are an engineer and I only wish I was. Thanks. PS As many of you know, I now have the 2010 wheel and bearing setup, which I assembled and installed myself. So far, no issues but I really don't get to ride as much as I would like to so time will tell. If my new setup fails, I will go back to Jap bikes, which would really hurt because I love the XT. | ||
| Uly_man |
"Were any of those failures not related to installation error? The only two failures I know of were both due to improper installation, which is also a common failure on the older wheel." I would say it could be possible Froggy but who is to know for sure. All I do know, from the past, is how some people spanner there bikes. Some of which makes me sick at the thought of it. I do not have an issue with the wheel bearings on this bike anymore than the many bikes I have had before. What I do though is check everything is ok all the time. But thats just me. One thing that does tend to wake people up, if they are lucky, is if they do not die from bad bike repairs or rider skills. |
