| Author | Message | ||
     Jmact |
Just registered. I picked up a garage-kept 2009 XT with less than 1000 mi. on it a few weeks ago from a soldier in Ramstein- I'm at present in Wiesbaden/Frankfurt area- my wife works on post there. I hadn't ridden since I had a BWM over 40 yrs ago, but my son left a Hyosung in the garage last summer, so I took the course and got my cycle license back. I was just getting into the new Uly when it started cutting out on the Autobahn, barely made it home, now hardly will start and is not driveable. Feels like it is only running on one cyl. Got a FSM and been reading the posts here, found the ECM plug and got the flash codes: Low batt (the previous owner's battery was shot, he just bought a new one so I assume that's an old code), the IMC (checked, cable to the muffler works OK, I have to do the diag on the servo), and an O2 sensor code. Being so new, the bike is a joy to work on, everything looks brand new under the covers. I should also mention I managed to lose my balance at a stop sign and set the bike down with no visible damage. Seems hard to believe the O2 sensor would be bad after so few miles. The dealer said he couldn't get me in for service for another month or something, said I should put new plugs in, which I will do. Tomorrow, I'll do the plugs, check for any hidden wire damage, pinched wires, etc. I've also got EcmSpy downloaded and a cable ordered. I'll get a stand, too- I'll need it for next winter. It just seems like a practically brand new bike shouldn't have these problems. Any other ideas or suggestions? | ||
| Bpt |
Check and clean your grounds. Start with the one from the battery to the frame. Take it off, sand, clean and use dielectric silicone before rebolting. | ||
| Teeps |
Make sure the battery IS good and fully charged. Then do a voltage drop test on the battery cables, under a load. | ||
| Pacificrider |
+1 the grounds! Very common issue that is a pain to diagnose. The powder coating on the frame can prevent a good ground. | ||
| Alchemy |
I don't know if I would use a dialectric. Something like a conductive sealant to minimize oxidation at the frame ground point might work better to keep the frame ground functional. I usually think of dialectrics as insulators. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Yes, sand ground connection points. Most install bolts using star type lockwashers which will dig in and promote good conductivity. It would be also worthwhile to check your spark plugs. These bikes are notorious for fouling plugs if the throttle is blipped repeatedly before the engine is completely warmed up. | ||
| Ratbuell |
"New" is a misnomer. 1000 miles on a 3 year old bike? Is about the worst thing you can do to it. Old fuel. Clogged injectors. Ganked sensors. Fouled plugs. Dried gaskets and seals. All of these are things you can run into on a vehicle that isn't regularly used. I'm in the process of resurrecting a co-workers 1996 S2T...with 7100 original miles on it. I took the carburetor apart and pulled the metering rod, and it was like putting a piece of bubble gum between my teeth, grabbing part with my hand, and stretching it out.....the "gas" in the carburetor did that when I pulled the metering rod. Same gas your Ulysses has in the injectors and other fuel system components. Which makes it ENTIRELY possible that your O2 sensor is bad. | ||
| Rwcfrank |
The 02 sensor is not a special unit and can be cross referenced and sourced from many different places. | ||
| Jmact |
Hey, I really appreciate the input. The guy I bought it from did all the right things for storing it- had it serviced just before he stored it for the winter, stabilizer in the gas tank, etc. Wouldn't surprise me, tho, if there were problems related to it sitting. My experience is more with power boats and Infiniti G20's, and I know letting them sit for long periods of time will cause problems. That said, with sealed gas systems, I have started and run G20's that had been sitting for years without problems. Makes me wonder how much of the fuel stabilizer push is to get folks to buy the stuff. Anyway, I'm going to be all over the grounds with emery cloth. I searched and found the cross ref info on O2 sensors. Can you get that sucker out without a O2 sensor wrench? Found the sensors on-line for under $35. I'm in Germany, and I just got a price for one at a Harley dealer- 70,€+! So I'll take care of the cheap stuff first. I'll keep this thread updated until I'm back in action. Been rainy and cold here for a few days, but it will get nice again to ride soon! | ||
| Bikelit |
How does it run when cold? If it runs good cold, then crappy when warm, then look at sensors. If it runs crappy warm or cold, look at grounds. Has someone already pulled the plugs? If so, did they know the secret handshake for the rear plug wire? | ||
| Jmact |
The bike started to crap out on the autobahn headed home. Cutting out at speed. When I got off to secondary roads, it was cutting out at lights. Now it barely starts, feels like just one cylinder firing. The seller drove the bike to me, about 1.5 hrs., and I put about 100 mi. on it without issue until it started the power-on/power-off thing. I pulled the front plug, it was carboned up. There a trick I should know about pulling the back one?? I did pick up some anti-seize and a universal (better part of my tools are back in the barn in the States), and I have new plugs to go in. I'm gonna wait to check all the grounds before I put them in. Thanks for the input, tho. Very nice to have! | ||
| Buellerxt |
Great attitude, Jmact, welcome to Badweb and safe riding!  | ||
| Bikelit |
Some dielectric grease on the inside of the plug boot helps during install and future removal. It the wire wasn't popped in last time, there will be arc marks inside it. One cylinder firing on start-up? Follow the colder pipe. | ||
| Rdkingryder |
For replacing the rear plug, you have remove the seat to access it from the frame opening on the leftside. It's really tight, but an extension and wobble will get it done. To install the new one, I used a long pvc hose on the new plug and awkwardly fed it down through the opening with my right hand, positioned it with the left hand from underneath and got it started. Finished it off with the socket. Good luck. (Message edited by rdkingryder on May 07, 2012) (Message edited by rdkingryder on May 07, 2012) | ||
| Towpro |
08 and up have a plug cleaning sequence you can trigger by hitting a sequence of steps (which I don't know). It might not fix your problem, but it might get you home next time it happens. There is also a sequence you can go through to reset the throttle position in the ECM. Someone here with the newer models can tell you I hear the worse thing you can do is start it to show your buddies what it sounds like then shut it off. It's like and airplane. If your going to start it, run it at least 1/2 hour. | ||
| Griffmeister |
Plug cleaning sequence is the same as checking the exhaust actuator. I think it's WOT,key on, ignition on. DO NOT START. I'm going from memory here, hopefully someone else can confirm. | ||
| Desert_bird |
Fouled plugs are generally signs of a problem, including compulsive blipping. I can't confirm if it works, however word is: SPARK PLUG CLEANING PROCEDURE Moto in neutral. 2008 XB and 1125R Buell motorcycles provide a feature to help clear residual fuel from the combustion chamber if a flooded engine or fouled spark plugs are suspected. This is achieved by opening the throttle to wide open, setting the Run/Stop switch to Run, then turning the ignition switch ON. (Hold WOT till engine light goes off). This will fire the spark plugs for approximately 4 seconds, burning any fuel left over in the combustion chamber. It may be necessary to repeat this procedure several times to allow a severely flooded engine to start. | ||
| Jmact |
I forgot to mention, I started it up for a few minutes to see if it was still cutting out. I then realized the front pipe wasn't especially hot, touched the rear pipe, and burned the crap out of my fingers. So started to think the front cyl was the problem. That plug was carboned up. Have to get the seat and air intake off- make sure all the spark wiring is OK. Will also check all the grounds. Weather better today, I'll get out there when I'm sick of working on the computer. | ||
| T9r |
I read and actually did a modification myself where I ran a ground wire from the point on the frame, where the ground connects off the battery up to the ignition coil. I used some large gauge ground wire for this.  | ||
| Uly_man |
"I've also got EcmSpy downloaded and a cable ordered." Are you sure you have the right version of ECM-SPY for your ECM. The original version is free but the later versions need a charity donation. I think what you do now is download the trial version which then allows you to plug into the ECM. You then find your ECM version with it, its in the code, and then you download the right version of ECM-SPY. "It just seems like a practically brand new bike shouldn't have these problems." Yes they can. Take care not to cross plug threads or over tighten them. "Seems hard to believe the O2 sensor would be bad after so few miles." I could be even with no fault code. Mine did. Take care with removing and re-fitting bolts as they have nasty thread lock on them. Its easy to shear a bolt head off. I would change all the fluids as well. Easy and cheap. | ||
| Jmact |
Thanks for the input- I took the air cleaner and its base off, no loose connections I could find. The variable exhaust servo works fine when tested per the FSM. I pulled the ground wires, carefully cleaned the contacts, and put them back- I did the two to the left of the battery, plus the battery connections were a little loose. It's a joy to work on as it's all like new. Tried to fire it up, doesn't even really want to run at all now. Misfires, won't rev up, and won't idle. Doesn't seem like the O2 sensor would cause that. Do you get a code when the injectors are fouled or just when they're bad? I guess I'll throw some injector cleaner in there, doesn't seem like it would hurt. Am I missing some critical ground connection? I did not put the new plugs in- I'm waiting for a gap gauge and maybe get some of those offset sparkplug pliers for dealing with the plug wires. Hopefully I'll get to it tomorrow if the weather stays nice. Connector for EcmSpy should be here too. That's strictly a Windows program, isn't it? Says the shell runs on PC or Mac. I've got an old Powerbook I have the FSM on, I'll have to borrow my kid's newer one that will boot up Windows otherwise. (Message edited by jmact on May 08, 2012) | ||
| Hughlysses |
The injectors don't typically foul, the plugs do. The offset pliers for dealing with the wires are practically mandatory. Did you clean and reinstall the old spark plugs, or what? As a next step I'd suggest that you do the "forced TPS reset" procedure. IIRC, you turn the key on (don't crank up), rotate the throttle wide open, hold for a sec, then release, letting it snap shut, and repeat 3 times. Then turn the bike off. That resets the TPS. (Somebody please correct me if I'm not remembering correctly.) If that doesn't help, my suggestion would be to charge the battery overnight, install new spark plugs, and try again. | ||
| Uly_man |
"Tried to fire it up, doesn't even really want to run at all now. Misfires, won't rev up, and won't idle. Doesn't seem like the O2 sensor would cause that." Have you tried to put 50psi in your rubber or greased the axle spindle. | ||
| Bikelit |
Do you have access to another '08-'09 ECM? Check to see if the seat has been hitting it. Might be cracked or just bad. | ||
| Jmact |
"Have you tried to put 50psi in your rubber or greased the axle spindle." Farkle that... | ||
| Uly_man |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jodLajEQQyI | ||
| Jmact |
Finally got around to changing the plugs. Pulled the coil and cleaned the ground contacts which made it easier to deal with the rear plug. Added some injector cleaner to the gas (not that I'm much of a believer in that). Both the old plugs were carboned up and oily. It still doesn't run perfectly (not that I have much to compare it to being my first Harley VeeTwin). But it idled, didn't stall out, and had plenty of power. So I took it for a 1/2 hr. ride to see if the ECM would readjust and fix anything, filled it up with high test (20 Euros for 10 litres/2 1/2 gals off post), and it seemed to be running fine. Job went OK. The biggest problem was getting that darn rubber air horn back on- some cussing over that! Still waiting for the EcmSpy cable to check things out more, but now I'm thinking it is the O2 sensor. I had the code for this, and I wondered if a faulty O2 sensor would be enough to foul up your plugs. I know in a car, a bad O2 sensor mostly screws up your mileage, but I'm sure it is more dramatic with a two banger. Any tuners out there can answer that question?? I'm a little worried that I might just be messing up my new plugs. At least I'm mobile again so I can get back to not killing myself in the first 1000 miles on a MC. I'm going to order the O2 sensor and another set of plugs just to be on the safe side. Beautiful weather for riding here today! | ||
| Froggy |
A faulty O2 can make the bike run too rich, and that can result in plugs wet fouling easier in addition to the crappy fuel economy like you meniton. | ||
| Jmact |
Thanks for the confirmation. Just ordered the sensor and extra set of plugs, plus a comfort kit and some extra shoulder screws. Can you get the O2 sensor out with a regular wrench or do I need to find one of those special sockets with the slot for the wire? On my car, I could always use a crescent wrench. I found a FSM to download for $5. If I want the Elec Diag Manual, am I really going to have to lay out $60. for it?? (Message edited by jmact on May 10, 2012) | ||
| Metra6924 |
Get the Electrical manual. The FSM shows you how to replace parts. The Electrical manual is loaded with diagnostic information. |
