| Author | Message | ||
     Electraglider_1997 |
http://www.gizmag.com/envia-systems-record-lithium -ion-battery/21653/ I see a 300+ mile per charge motorcycle on the horizon with these batteries. Even if you had a 200 mile per day commute, you'd have little to worry about. Sure " will" be cheaper than filling up with gasoline. Engineer a hybrid bike with a small ice and the ability to tour becomes a reality. Also, the Isle of Man TTXGP is going to become very interesting within the next couple of years if this battery technology is used in a bike. http://enviasystems.com/ | ||
| Mhevezi |
Ya know what? I think this is awesome news and am fully on-board with the electric bike thing. Sure we are not there yet, and I will miss my rumbling, V-twin bikes (love how they set off car alarms- ha ha!) - but it's the wave of the future and so much better for the planet. No more oil to change and spill in the garage and haul down to Kragen.... Love them or hate them- they are coming. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Being here in the Midwest, there just isn't any dealers that carry any electric bikes. Closest is in Uttumwa, Iowa which is over 200 miles away. That will have to be a good overnight trip come summer so that I can test ride a Zero. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Timely thread, as usual, badwebbers. I personally am salivating over the possibilities of where this technology will bring us. I'm not sure if I should be more excited about this or EBR's future so because I'm sometimes an indecisive female, it's gonna be both! Greg and I just taught a class using a Zero XU as one of the training bikes. The XU gets about 40 miles per charge (it's the 2011 model, they changed the battery for the 2012 model year) and after day one on at our largest range, the charge was still over half full. That was on "economy" mode. "Sport" mode gobbles up a little more juice. We played on zeroes on the local roads (umm...more "real world) a little last week in sport mode and we almost had to push it back in the new to us "out of juice position". The student who was on it this class had a blast, and I loved doing demos on it. The smile/smirk on my face was probably pretty obnoxious, very obvious to all involved how much fun it was. It's Gregs turn to demo tomorrow, hope he chimes in and smiles as much as I did today. | ||
| Buellerxt |
Better for the planet? LOL Don't believe that baloney. Way too much biting the hand that feeds us in America today and pouring many, many billions into bogus, costly, redundant DREAMS and WISHES like wind, solar, etc. If they ever show they can compete on their own, fine, but the billions of tax payer dollars being thrown away to keep them pretending to being viable have to be stopped.I'd be all for a cost effective, reliable electric motorcycle that could compete on performance, on its own, but PLEASE, PLEASE stop the better for the planet baloney! LOL | ||
| Kevinaye |
I was at the Isle of Man TT last year, and watched the electric bikes race. It was only one lap. The winner averaged just under the 100mph average they were hoping to break on the 38 mile course. Last place.......well he had to get off his bike and push for a couple of the last inclines. I think he made it to the finish  | ||
| Conchop |
Carbon nano tube batteries will be the real shiznit! A battery the size of a beer can could run a bike on a single charge for years. That would be better for the planet. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Con, How about a battery the size of a Redbull can, that'd even be better. Topper. Fltwisty, I'm envious that you get to use a Zero for your MSF course. I don't know how that exactly works since Zero's don't have a clutch or gears to deal with and that is half the battle with new riders. I've got to drive a couple of hours in the wee hours tomorrow morning for our yearly RiderCoach Update meeting here in Nebraska. I'll try to remember to mention how lucky your program is to be using an Electric Motorcycle. We don't have any Zero's yet but about 3 years ago we started getting Suzuki TU250 fuel injected bikes and I really like using them for teaching. No messing with fuel valves, chokes, or warming up issues. Really look forward to the day when electric bikes are the norm. Just seems that the maintenance costs and headaches would be minuscule in comparison to what we have to deal with on today's bikes. Just unplug, jump on and go. By the way, Zero would be doing themselves and riders a huge favor if they made available their bikes at a big discount to MSF training programs. MSF would have to come up with a new course for these type of bikes just like they have scooter, and 3 wheeler specific courses. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Just out today. http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/2012-zero-d s-review-91239.html | ||
| Mhevezi |
I very good friend of mine is the VP of Engineering at Zero and I recently demo'd a ZeroX on a local motocross track. No- they are not ready to compete. Too small, too expensive and just not enough. BUT- It was WAYYY more fun than I thought it would be. Was able to clear a few double jumps and even passed a few riders on their gas bikes. Yes, the ride is totally different, but when they get this stuff perfected.... it's ON! Sure, lead-acid batteries are STONE AGE tech and even Lithium-ION batteries are old-school nowadays, but the future is coming and it's not that bad. BTW- as much we we love to brag about our bike's ability to get 50, 60 better MPG's- most bikes are terrible polluters and while I will always ride- electric vehicles are way better for the environment as a whole. I don't want to hijack a thread, but we can make all the power we need in the US without oil, and those ass-hats in the middle east can go broke for all I care. Our enemy here is Chevron/Texaco, Exxon/Mobile, etc, etc... The US should make the US rich, NOT Saudi Arabia! | ||
| Kevinaye |
BTW. heres a electric bike from Canada that does get 300km to a charge and apparently does 200km/hr When its on charge, it will send you an e-mail when its ready to go http://www.mobilemag.com/2011/04/21/lito-sora-elec trobike-boasts-300km-range-200kmh-top-speed/ | ||
| Uly_man |
Socio Political bullsh+t. Were do you think the electric will come from to power/charge these electric bike/cars. And I am SO looking forward to the new electric Boeing Skymaster 747. The energy fairy died with the bubbling Crude. Most people have no idea at all about how the services in there life are produced or whats involved in making that process a reality. Oh and hears a one I have not heard mentioned before. Does anyone think that flying vast numbers of B52s 24/7 (a very old dirty bird) for 50 years has not had some effect on the Ozone layer since they say jets have something to do with the problem. Warp factor nine Captain. Wind power on-line Mr Scott. An electric anything will happen but if you think its going to be any cheaper to run than now you will be very much mistaken. | ||
| Dr_greg |
I STILL wonder where all the new electricity is going to come from to power the new electric vehicles. Oh yeah, wind and solar... I'm all for IC engine replacement, but there are lots of fundamental engineering challenges at hand. And we're not exactly turning out more engineers around here... As I prepare for retirement, good luck to the next generation. --Doc | ||
| Uly_man |
"As I prepare for retirement into the Cursed Earth, good luck to the next generation." Please do not Doc. I am sick of a world full of "account" engineers. We will need your wisdom in the future. If anything history teaches us that nothing is new. A NEW Dark Age is looming over the World but this time around its going to be a problem. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I'm as skeptical as they come about greenie happy BS... but there really is a good case for an electric vehicle. It's not a magic bullet, but its for sure better. Tour your local coal plant. The economies of scale in their operation are massive. They can (literally) invest millions in scrubbers, energy recovery, etc. Things that increase efficiency some fraction of a percent makes NO sense on a car, but saves millions at a power plant. Transporting electricity isn't free, but it's cheaper than you would think. It's actually remarkably low loss. That's because of high voltage (losses are proportional to current, but power is voltage times current, so you can transmit the same power by sending more volts at lower amps and have pretty low losses....) Add in increased nuclear power (which is our only real hope) and it really starts to work. You don't want a nuclear power plant on your motorcycle, but a battery will do. There is even a prayer that it could be somewhat renewable. I recall grinding out the math once, and if I replaced my roof with high efficiency cells, I could harvest enough power on a sunny day to commute 20 miles on an electric motorcycle. So not a solved problem by any means, but the math at least hints that it could work and help a LOT. I'm a conservative, so I'm interested in preserving fossil fuels because we are around 500 years from discharging a battery that takes many millions of years to charge. It's just irresponsible. We need to use the fuels we have left to aggressively develop their replacement. | ||
| Uly_man |
Hey Reep. Thanks. I sometimes think its just me. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
The thing that has always bothered me is the fact that there are cars that get practically no mpg and these vehicles are un-necessarily using up the available oil. We own 2 Prius hybrids and they do better than almost all other vehicles in the mpg department but not near enough as far as I'm concerned. Then you have oil companies that can ship oil all over the planet for profit and it is getting used up as fast as they can sell it, no conserving resources at all. Just think of all the oil wasted in the past 100 years. Use it up as fast as we can. I know that is the way things are but it sure seems very short sighted. | ||
| Uly_man |
Yes and you live in a country that, more or less invented modern Democracy. But is it "for the people" anymore. Have the good words and intentions been warped to the needs of those who want power. No true Democracy imprisons people without charge for any reason. Its not the first time either. As in many cases today the talk is loud but has little substance or real worth. Do we invade to save the people or the oil. (Message edited by uly_man on March 02, 2012) | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
"I don't know how that exactly works since Zero's don't have a clutch or gears to deal with and that is half the battle with new riders." Don't wanna jack a thread but in FL automatics ride the BRC alongside shifting bikes. A typical class in some of our locations might have three non-shifting bikes. I've had as many as half the bikes in the class be automatics. For the limited teaching I've done with the zeros the transition has been seamless bringing them into the fleet. Students have been impressed and the bikes are drumming up interest, especially on breaks. Like the three wheeled curriculum, I guess I am finding my self at the right time/right place. I've got my boss lady to thank for that . She is a visionary and I'm not privvy to all the details surrounding the Zeros coming into our fleet scenario, but I'm sure it was a good decision for her to make business-wise. "I'll try to remember to mention how lucky your program is to be using an Electric Motorcycle." Please do. I made mention of it at my MN update (no Zeroes there yet either) and there were tons of questions about it. It is the wave of the future! "We don't have any Zero's yet but about 3 years ago we started getting Suzuki TU250 fuel injected bikes and I really like using them for teaching." I believe we are one of two schools in the US blessed by MSF to use the Zeroes. The TU's are currently my favorite training bikes in MN. Besides the things you mentioned, they are adorable, like mini triumph bonnevilles. | ||
| Mhevezi |
Whoah, easy big fellas. I'm not advocating electric everything, and surely somethings will remain the same, but anything we can do to help, helps. It kills me when I go get gas, and I know part of that money leaves the US and flows to other countries. I do my best to keep my dough in the US, and proudly drive TWO Buells and one Cadillac. No, the bikes and cars are not 100% American, but it's the best we can do. Look at diesel these days. We can manufacture bio-diesel at home, from grain, and some of the latest diesel cars get amazing mileage and drive really well. (remember the old MBZ 240D or the VW diesel Rabbit- yikes) I just want to see us get off foreign oil and be more self sufficient. If the middle east plunges into chaos (moreso, I mean) let them. Just don't let it affect hard-working people's pocketbooks! Oh, and I hope to see EBR back in business at a greater capacity than he ever has been! | ||
| Dr_greg |
Look at diesel these days... Hear, hear! Our 2002 VW Golf TDI gets 40 mpg city/50 mpg highway at legal speeds. I have a sticker on the back window that says: "50 mpg...no batteries needed" Europe has many diesel vehicles (including high-performance ones) that I would LOVE to own. But would they sell in the USA? Prolly not, since we're conditioned to think diesels are smelly and nasty, and need hybrids (not knocking hybrids, but they're not the only solution). OK, ok, off my soapbox now. Sure looking forward to retirement. Although I'll have to admit even my students are easier on me than you guys! :-) --Doc | ||
| Jphish |
Hey Dr Greg - +1 on TDIs. My 2001 jetta only gets about 38 city / 45 hiway - but its an auto trans. Other than turbo getting gunked up (but Freds TDI tip for cleansing works) it's been pretty good. The newer TDI's are a lot quieter & almost no odor. Im saving up for a new TDI AWD VW wagon. I DO like the evolution in batteries tho - we really DO need to reduce CO2 emmissions. But we also need more engineers to translate science / technology advances to practical, usable products....how else we going to meet the 50 mpg fleet average? ...and now you're retiring !? But suspect you're leaving behind some creative grad students to take over the helm. Now you'll have more time to promote "peace through superior horse power" Congrats!! Chow' j | ||
| Buellerxt |
When's the magic day, Dr. Greg? Just curious. I kinda' think sometimes that I should ride over there and meet you, talk bikes, and maybe scoot up to the Crest together. Having grown up in Albuquerque (North Valley) and lived in Escondido Village while at Stanford, after getting a great education in Socorro, I feel we have a lot in common. Anyway, from my perspective, RETIREMENT IS GOOD and I liked my work and working!!! We even had a VW Rabbit, gas powered though, that we bought in Palo Alto! (Message edited by buellerxt on March 03, 2012) | ||
| Dr_greg |
When's the magic day, Dr. Greg? Not wanting to completely derail this thread, but... My official last day of UNM work is June 30, 2012. Although after the semester ends (mid-May) I won't really be doing anything more for the ME department. I intend to continue with my consulting job one or two days per week, and catch up on my riding. I expected to work five more years before I retired, but my serious illness last spring put things in perspective. And yes, sounds like we have a common background. North Valley, Escondido Village...gotta get together sometime. Now back to the regularly scheduled programme... --Doc | ||
| Tootal |
That's great news Doc! I'm on the diesel bandwagon too. I've been saying for years that they should take a six cylinder diesel and cut it in half, throw a turbo on it and put it in a mid size pick up truck! If a Dodge diesel, Cummins, can make all that torque for the big trucks just think what a three cylinder would do for mileage and power. BMW proved you can make a three cylinder run smooth. Ride an old K75 some time, amazingly smooth engine. BMW recently made a show car with electronics and a three cylinder turbo diesel that gets amazing mileage, The engine alone would be great in a small car. I would love that engine as an option in a MINI! |
