| Author | Message | ||
     Reepicheep |
Along with their other 8 listeners, I've been enjoying the Wheelnerds podcasts. If you don't know, one of them (not the nerdy one, the other nerdy one) bought a well used Ulysses... I think it's pushing like 35k. And he's not a serious mechanic type, so he is at the mercy of a local dealer. It sits there now... with an odd "backfiring and cutting out" problem. I can hear the doubt and fear in his voice, he is wavering. The wise thing to do for somebody that isn't a serious mechanic and doesn't have a good local dealer would be for him to sell a 30k+ mile bike (no matter what make), and buy a lower mileage one, or one with a good local dealer. This must not happen! We need to keep that Buell running well for another 30k miles, just to annoy Todd (the nerdy one), so the Buell is running great while Todd's VStrom and Ural have all sorts of mechanical misadventures... So, what would be the problem with a high milage Uly that runs fine, then cuts out and backfires? It's intermittent, so when it's not happening the bike works fine. I think the dealer checked for a cracked ECM, though who knows if they did it right. And they changed the fuel pump filter as well I believe, which wouldn't hurt, though I don't know why they thought that would be the problem causing backfires. What about crank position sensor? I think that would do it, and that would be a reasonable thing to have worn out at 30k miles. I'd also be looking for chafing on the wires under the seat and around the steering head, just because it's a weird electrical problem and those are places where weird electrical problems happen. I'd also be inclined to check the head temp sensor, just because it's easy, and because Al says its a common problem when things are really weird. I'd also check the wires for chafing around the fuel pump, as that's been a common area for problems as well. And a closer inspection of the ECM would probably be in order. That would be my list... an easy afternoons worth of work. Any other suggestions? (Message edited by reepicheep on December 13, 2011) | ||
| Shagg1970 |
Mine had exactly the same symptoms this summer and I thought it was a cracked pcm(it was cracked) and there were no codes, so I replaced it with an EBR pcm and went for a test ride after about 10 min, and the engine was good and hot it started acting up again. I got it home and checked for codes and there was a tps code. replaced the tps and all has been good since. It seemed to be heat related as I could ride for 10-30 min with no problem then it would start bucking and backfiring and I would have to nurse it home. if I would try to restart it hot it would crank for about 10 seconds then backfire, if I kept trying it might start. If I let it cool down it would fire right up and be good again. So I would definitely check the pcm for cracks, and the tps. Good luck. | ||
| Buewulf |
Same backfiring and cutting out problem on my 2006 as described by Shagg (happens with the engine good and hot and fan running). So far unresolved. I have not been able to ride in months, and this time of year is the best riding season down in these parts. To add insult to injury, I have no shortage of nerdy buddies gloating in their "I told you this would happen if you bought that Buell! You should have bought a Honda/Yamaha/etc./etc." I, too, am wavering. Possible causes that I checked for on mine that may be causing your nerd's problem: 1) Broken wires, particularly the spliced ones near the neck. 2) ECM 3) Temperature head sensor 4) Bad / loose / dirty grounds 5) BAS (My bike only threw a trouble code on one occasion during the many test runs I made trouble-shooting this issue, and that was for a bank angle sensor. That is the only play I have left, though I'll be shocked if that is the problem since the sensor is pretty new. The BAS was the first Uly issue I had, and the symptoms were nothing like this. But I guess it is a possibility, so I'm throwing it out there as well for consideration.) Good luck. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Don't rule out spark plug wires or the plugs themselves. | ||
| Balloyd66 |
another concurrent thread that may be relevant http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/660723.html?1323739484 | ||
| Etennuly |
I'm sorry I just don't see 35K as a high mileage Buell. Not a low mileage one for sure, but my '06 started getting really good at 35K. It is now near 58K and running better than ever. The good thing about these problems seems to be that once fixed they stay fixed. I do not recall having any of the problems return once it is healed. I would tell him to fire it up without touching the throttle and let it warm up for five minutes before riding it. If he is a former HD guy he may need to be taught to not blip the throttle at stop lights and such. Then if it does better put in a new set of plugs and ride it as described above. It could be that minor of a problem. Could also be needing a TPS reset with a little carb cleaner work. We really don't have a good enough description of what is happening and when. | ||
| Motorbike |
If he is a former HD guy he may need to be taught to not blip the throttle at stop lights and such. That would be a mighty big task. Once a blipper, always a blipper.  | ||
| Testcase |
I DO NOT BLIP. I haven't picked it back up yet for the shop. I've been over in this thread: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/656101.html?1323620490 Shop says it was the bank angle sensor connector. We'll see how it is once I get over to picking it up. 35K isn't a real high mileage bike, but I'm hoping it gives me a chance to change that! Chuck http://www.wheelnerds.com | ||
| Schwara |
Keep the faith Chuck. I'm only at ~24K on my '09 XT but can't stand to be away from her for too long. I haven't had to visit a shop yet as any issues I've had so far have either been answered out here on BadWeb or with a little help from another local Bueller ... thanks again Bill. Anyway, I would post out here before going to a shop myself, as there is a lot more knowledge available through this website than at a great many Harley shops ... no offense intended. Good luck, and I hope your issues are fixed. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
I would post out here before going to a shop myself, as there is a lot more knowledge available through this website than at a great many Harley shops Most of what I know about Buells I've learned here, whether it's true or not. | ||
| Etennuly |
I DO NOT BLIP. Well now that that is clarified we can move on. I did not know this was the same bike on the other thread. But we gotta get you going. My Uly has had a gaggle of problems since new. I think many of the symptoms of coughing, sputtering, running rough etc are often combinations of more than one little thing that makes the symptoms confusing. It seems that sometimes when you fix one thing it is not much better, but different. My '06 had 19 separate wiring harness, I will call them problems, for lack of a general non specific term. The fuel pump wires were shorting, the fuel injector wires were worn through to each other, the cam sensor wires wore thorough to plastic where in rain it would cut out, the '77' connector went toasty, the ETS wire wore to short on the O2 wire, the o2 wire shorted to the head, the three wire splicer in the steering neck broke, both of them, the ECM plug wires were twisted and worn through to each other, after the BAS recall was done they let the ECM wires hang down which wore them through on the bracket. The wires under the air box cover apparently got pretty hot as the three wires for the TPS melted together, there were others in there with the same fate. Then there were the grounds, several broken or non contacting grounds, then came the fan problem. Like I said though, as each one was fixed that problem never arose again and some had multiple repairs to fix one problem. With all of that the bike never left me stranded. I have only needed a tow home for a flat tire and a broken clutch cable. I don't want to scare you off from a Uly, most of my problems could have easily been fixed with the new wiring harness that the dealer refused to install when it was under warranty. So I fixed them as a matter of understanding what was the causing the problems. It has been trouble free for the past 15,000 miles. I still love this bike! Given a little time I think we can get you going. | ||
| Ratbuell |
We can get him going, Vern. Chuck - when's the last time your bike had a TPS reset? With the ENGINE HOT? (we'll start with basics). What do you know of the maintenance history? "Sputter then backfire" - that tells me it may load up immediately before this happens? Or is the sputter actually the bike loading up, before the backfire? I'm thinking TPS reset, AFV reset, go for a full-range ride (warm it up, ride it gently, hammer the crap out of it, cool it down), then check codes and see what you have. My inkling, though, given the "backfire"? Fuel issue. Which is where I go to TPS (does it happen at steady cruise, but it behaves when you are whacking it?). Could be O2. Could be intake leak...but usually the only "backfire" you get out of an intake leak is decel popping. Shame you're at the wrong end of the country. If you were near MD, I'd fix it for ya! And you could use my '06 while I was fighting with it...'cause I'm nice like that! | ||
| Testcase |
UPDATE: I picked the Buell back up last week right before I had to leave for vacation to San Diego. It ran pretty well from the dealer to home, which is a big improvement from the previous time. The shop guys felt pretty confident it was the bank angle connection. We'll see, I guess. I won't get a chance to really ride her until January and then only if the roads are relatively clear. The shop had initially thought fueling issue the first goaround. This was when they hadn't observed the problem firsthand. They replaced the fuel filter saying it was pretty crudded up. It was down the street from the dealer that it immediately started dying again and I turned her right around and the shop mgr and mech both got to right it around with it stalling, back-firing, and making an odd plastic-burning smell. The problem manifested above 5K RPM and they stated they were unable to get it to happen again once they fixed the BAS. I am going to poke around on Ebay for the stuff I need to do a TPS reset and give that a go. Now that winter is starting to set in, not sure how much testing I'll be getting out of her. Chuck http://www.wheelnerds.com (Message edited by Testcase on December 19, 2011) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Good luck Chuck... the BAS is for sure a reasonable candidate. The only part that bugs me is the hot plastic smell. That suggests a short somewhere... But fixing the BAS is an easy fix to make and try nonetheless... | ||
| Etennuly |
Hot plastic smell.....hmmmmm.....could there be wires laying across the heads? Is the fan working? If it is not on at a stop heat will build up under the air box and melt the insulation on the wires together. It could need a wiring harness like mine should have had. It smelled of melting plastic several times. And I found a lot of it through months of looking, probing, and testing. | ||
| Testcase |
When I say its a plastic smell, I don't mean it reeks of burning plastic all the time. It's only been on those occasions where it was stuttering, backfiring, and dying. Also, it was a very very light smell. Burning plastic or ozone. It was kind of hard to describe. The "a/c" seems to be working as always. When I rode the bike back home from the last shop trip and shut her down, there was no smell at all. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Might have just been "new stuff" smell... | ||
| Testcase |
Since getting it back from the shop, they said they fixed an iffy BAS connector, I have done a TPS reset. Been doing a little winter riding and the bike's running fine so far. We'll see how it goes | ||
| Reepicheep |
Excellent! A good BAS with a bad harness is a reasonable explanation, but a tricky thing to find... That will definitely go on the list for "goofy possible problems to watch for". Hopefully that's it. When you hooked up ECMspy, did you do what I did? Sit there pushing the button for "exhaust servo test" just to watch it go back and forth... muttering "that's SO cool!"? (and I absolutely deny that I went and got one of my kids, and showed them. You can't prove anything!) | ||
| 7873jake |
I stood there and did a tach/Speedo sweep with ECMspy the first time. And then went in to get my wife and father to show them. they called me a dork and walked off. I deserved it. | ||
| Swampy |
I had the ground pin on my fuel pump connection burn. I think the burned connector was due to a bad frame to engine ground, the one under the air box. Bad grounds will cause a multitude of running problems. | ||
| Testcase |
Reep, No... I mainly just stared at the representation of the dials and monkeyed with the throttle to make it dance. I know what I'm doing when I get home though! | ||
| Testcase |
Well, back two steps. Riding home yesterday in a drizzle and it started again. Sputtering, some popping, engine revs going down and up wildly despite throttle position. Bike didn't die though. I've been letting it warm up which seemed to resole the mild sputter I'd get first starting out (it's cold here now). Did a TPS reset. Noticed a new symptom. When it happens, the LED on my heated liner controller flickers. Now, the controller is wireless. Also, the day before I made it sputter mildly by swerving it back and forth in my lane. I'm starting to suspect a wiring issue? | ||
| Buewulf |
The swerving may suggest that the BAS itself is bad. Did they ever change that out? My bike only acts up when the ambient air temp is above 60 degrees or so. I am curious to know if you have noticed such a relationship to your issues as well. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Ugh. First, ignore the sputter when cold issue. I think they all do that. That's not to say don't eventually fix it, but solve the bigger problem first. The heater LED symptom is interesting. I didn't understand the wireless part of your comment though. If it were me, I'd completely bypass the BAS long enough to see if that is the problem or not. I'll have to dig a bit to research the best way to do that... it shouldn't be hard to find. | ||
| Testcase |
Don't think so. I wasn't charged for one. They just said the connection was bad. I've noticed the bike misbehaving more when it's cold or a bit rainy. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Sounds like you can bypass the BAS with ECM spy. I don't know that I would leave it that way, but I'd sure try it and see if the symptoms of your problem go away. If so, you know it's in the BAS or that leg of the wiring harness. I want to do that myself, and see if my extended cold morning stutter is BAS related. I have my Uly in pieces right now (latent crack in the head from the assault by Corolla), I can shoot some pictures of likely chafe points. They are obvious when the motor is rotated down. | ||
| Testcase |
That'd be cool. I'm at headdesk point now with the thing. | ||
| Reepicheep |
If disabling it does work, you totally have to do the following... 1) Use ECM spy to turn it back on. 2) Go for a ride with Todd and get it to act up again. Make sure he is on the Ural. 3) Stop, pull out a small flask of Vodka, and soak the BAS for 5 minutes. 4) (Meanwhile, while Todd is distracted, use ECM spy to disable it again). 5) Hook it back up and go riding, where Todd will see the problem is solved. | ||
| Testcase |
About the wireless controller: The controller for my heated jacket isn't connected to the bike at all. It's battery powered and communicates via RF (I guess) to the liner (which is connected to the battery of the bike). I'm surmising that a surge through the electrical causes the jacket to send a signal back to the controller that is making the LED blip. That, combined with the swerve making it happen once, and the misbehaving coming out during a light rain is what making me think I might have a worn through wire or somewhere that's shorting. Well, guessing that anyway. |
