| Author | Message | ||
     Timbobuell |
Horn blows instead of fan running No kidding. Just got bike back from dealer after service. The mechanic stated he changed something in the electrical system, a diode switch or something, I should have asked more questions. Never had a problem with the bike. Now exactly when the fan should come on the horn starts blowing. When the bike is cool everything is normal. Fan never runs now, riding down the road or sitting. ECM was not flashed. Not letting it run long so as not to over heat. The is a full xb12xp, full cop kit factory. The dealer is closed, so I can hopefully get them to switch back whatever they changed tomorrow but wondered if anyone has ever had this problem. Fuse fine and getting power to fuse. Anybody? | ||
| Skifastbadly |
does the fan blow when you push the horn button? | ||
| Ratbuell |
There are one or two diodes in the fuse panel. They have a little >| symbol on them. Turn one around. If that doesn't do it, put it back and turn the other one. You say "full cop kit" - does it still have the emergency kit on it? If it does, the horn button does not honk the factory beep-beep horn, it activates the air-horn through the siren speaker. That's all controlled through the box under the seat. I don't think there's any diode in that setup, and I don't think its connected to the fan, either. Totally separate harness. If it doesn't have the emergency kit on it, but it used to...there's a plug behind the flyscreen that needs to be reconnected to the beep-beep horn; you unplug it when installing the emergency response kit, and connect it (the button) to the emergency kit's harness that runs it to the control box. But start in the fuse box; that's where the only diodes I know of, are located. (Message edited by ratbuell on November 16, 2011) | ||
| Ratbuell |
And if flipping one diode at a time doesn't do it, flip 'em both. | ||
| Timbobuell |
Ratbuell It sounds like not only are you on something but this sounds like what the mechanic said he did in reverse before it stopped working. I am beat down tonight, so I will try it tomorrow, if it works then I can make my bike trip and that would be great. I'll let you know. If this works I'll send you a nice riding jacket. The other guy wanted to know if the fan came on when I hit the horn button, NO. This bike has the full cop kit with all emergency lights installed factory. There is not a little horn under the flyscreen, just the big one mounted on the right side. Sounds sirens when the emer lights are on but just a loud horn normal. Now loud hour exactly when the fan should be running. Are these diodes the four white things that are mounted beside the fuses in side the box. Be nice to know which is which. I stink at electrical stuff, can never figure it out, especially when someone else has been messing with it. Thanks for your thoughts will try at daylight. | ||
| Timbobuell |
Update horn blows when fan running Does anyone have a clear photo of the under seat image with the fuse box cover off. I need to see the orientation of the white fuse things, (maybe diodes). My mechanic (dealer) switched them and now my horn blows instead of the fan coming on when it should be running. Thanks | ||
| Timbobuell |
 this is what I need showing orientation of white things with writing, fuse in picture shows direction of box Thanks | ||
| Ratbuell |
Those white things are relays. Diodes look like black fuses, with a diagram on them that looks like: ->|- Or something similar. Basically a triangle, with a line at one end of it, like a little arrow (diodes are one-way electrical gates). Lemme go out and see if I can pop my seat real fast... | ||
| Reepicheep |
Those look like relays. They likely can only be plugged in one direction because of the orientation of the terminals. | ||
| Ratbuell |
OK, went to my '06. There's only one diode, its at the end opposite the relays (which, by the way, will only go in one way because of the shape of the pins).  The left of the photo is the front of the bike. I swapped mine, FWIW, and the horn worked fine either way. I suspect something has gone wonky in your emergency control box under the seat. I'd talk directly to the tech, pull your seat, and have him point to what he "reversed". I want to say the only connector for the E-kit under the seat is the monster connector that goes to the box, and the power/ground connector that goes to the rear power outlet. So its not like he could plug anything in wrong... Does the fan turn the horn on both in and out of emergency mode? Or only one? | ||
| Danair |
It couldn't possibly be louder than the fan.  | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
When I hit my ULY's horn button, the fan rotates downward and my bikes starts to levitate like a Marine Corps Osprey. Topper (Message edited by electraglider_1997 on November 17, 2011) | ||
| Timbobuell |
Thanks for your input; everything you have said is correct. My fuse box does not have the diode in the position yours does. There is a spare there. Hopefully I can get this sorted out. Just bought an extended warranty yesterday, was told it started immediately. Now they are saying I have to wait 30 days. The fan worked when I took it in, the tech said he switched something, now it does not. I have not tried doing anything in emergency mode, could give that a try. That horn is so loud that you just have to cut off the bike when it starts. I know this bike, the horn is blowing exactly when the fan should come on and goes off exactly when historically the fan should go off. When the engine is cold all emergency modes work. One push of the green button gives you rear lights, another push gives you all lights (strobes). When the engine is cold the horn works normally, loud horn when normal mode, emergency mode pushing the horn repeatedly will cycle through horn yelp high low repeat. | ||
| Froggy |
There are labels on the cover for the fusebox, go by that. Ratbuell's bike is older and has a different electrical system, its possible the fuse/diode arrangements have changed. | ||
| Dennis_c |
when you take it for a ride unplug the horn  | ||
| Motorbike |
Wow, that is really funny! (As long as it doesn't happen to my bike.)  I would ride it back to the dealer that worked on it. When you get there, let it idle so it gets hot enough for the horn to come on, then drive it into their shop and let it run. I'll bet you'll get some quick service then! | ||
| Easttroy |
What's funny is that the horn is connected into the Police wiring, but the fan is not. The only way I can see that the fan turns the horn on is that they tapped the fan circuit (that is separate from horn) and tied it into the police horn. Alternatively, there could be a path to ground that is being initiated for the horn when the fan turns on. Not sure, but it's definitely not a standard configuration. | ||
| Timbobuell |
Been a long day. It’s the ecu and maybe the horn switch. Dealer came through; it is true there is a 30 day wait to file a claim with an extended warranty if the previous warranty has expired. My warranty was good when the bike went in for service so it is covered. No charge. I bought a fan anyway on my own. Found one for 70 bucks. I'll tuck that away. Fan never comes on now so can't ride the bike. Dealer waiting on parts. Thanks for the help everyone. | ||
| Easttroy |
Timbobuell, The horn switch is a separate circuit that never goes to the ECU, though with the "police" controller, it may be connected elsewhere, since the police controller ties back in to the horn circuit, which is different than the stock Uly. If it was me, I'd remove the police equipment and go back to a more stock bike without the extra electrical load. | ||
| Ratbuell |
The police setup is all LED, and it gets power from the aux circuit under the tripletail (switched by the ECM if power drops below a threshold). Load is negligible. Your emergency connections should be: 1. power from rear cigarette lighter plug 2. plug in to stock horn wiring behind flyscreen (connects horn button to e-box). That's it. Those are the only 2 places the subharness attaches to the standard motorcycle. All the other connections are from controls to e-box; e-box to lightheads; and e-box to siren speaker. And, my 09 FSM doesn't show any diodes:  | ||
| Ratbuell |
I'd get a stock horn. Unhook the emergency box from the bike (horn connector, and power under the tail). Plug the stock horn in behind the flyscreen, and test from there. You should NOT need an ECM. You might need an emergency control box...but I still see zero connection from that to the fan. Tech must have crossed a wire somewhere. External. Not circuitry or electronics, just plugged in wrong. What did it go in for service for? Where on the bike was he working? What was he touching? Retrace his steps, that could help troubleshoot... | ||
| Motorbike |
Is it possible that you lost a ground somewhere? I have seen problems in cars where there is a bad ground and current can backfeed and cause strange things to happen. Since any fan draws a good amount of current under normal use, I would take a close look at this possibility. I used to work in an automotive electrical shop and we saw all kinds of weird stuff. For example, a customer claimed his dash lights would come on whenever he stepped on the brake pedal. As it turns out, the loop terminal on the ground wire for the dash was installed under the head of the screw used to mount the dash. After several years of use, the screw worked loose and the ground was lost. Something very similar happened on my own Chevy S-10, fixed by re-grounding. Please let us know what you figure out on this one. | ||
| Timbobuell |
Reference the questions from Ratbuell: I went in for an oil change and a once over at the HD dealer that sold the bike to me. I had two days left on warranty. Everything was working perfectly on the bike. My bike had on occasion blown a fuel pump fuse. I was told that the fuel pump was not going to be replaced at this time. I got the oil changed to bring me up to HD standards for oil changes according to HD records. Oil had been changed several more times by me. When I don't get a call to pick up my bike I call them and find out that they are going to replace the fuel pump and the bike is kept several more days. Finally the bike is returned to me. I take it home and notice the electrical quadrant on the handlebar moves when I use the front brake. Also while idling the bike I notice the horn blowing. I shut down the bike and realize the fan is not coming on. It should be on. I call the tech and am instructed to return the bike. It is there now. They say it needs a horn switch and an ecu. My fear is the ecu will have the new flash that runs the fan while riding. I just want my bike back running like it did when I took it there. Disconnecting the emergency kit, horn or having the hair dryer between my legs run all the time is not an option. As far as speaking with the tech that did the work, I have been unable to speak with him since he asked me to return the bike. I’ve tried several times. The GM of the dealership somehow got the idea that I had changed the flash in the ecu. Maybe that was because I had instructed service to not flash my ecu. The statement that this latest repair would be covered only occurred after I had a conversation with the GM. He clearly misunderstood that my request to not flash the ecu meant somehow that I had modified the ecu myself. He now understands the statement by me “to not flash the ecu and that it is the way I want it” means that it is the stock program I bought the bike with. Again I do not want the new flash that runs the fan continually while driving. As far as the suggestion that I need a new controller, everything works perfectly when the bike is cold or when the normal cycle would have the fan not running. I believe it is part of the logic to blow that loud horn to let you know the bike is in an overheat condition. As far as the suggestion to check all grounds, I am unable to speak with the tech that did the work. I was there yesterday for a couple of hours and several people have spoke with me but not the tech who did the work, just not happening for some reason. If it is a ground issue I can’t discuss with him directly and conversations with others have so far been misunderstood at times. Now that I think of it the ground issue was one of the first things I suggested when I spoke with the tech initially after the fan not running problem. Thanks for all the input. This has become messy and I’ll post my final comments on HD service and Buell extended warranty. For now the Dealer says they will fix it and cover it. It’s in the service department’s ballpark and I’m on the bench. The mechanic that is on this in the past has been brilliant and was the main reason I went with the extended warranty. I don’t know what to do at this point but stay out of the way. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I think you are following the right course. I was not suggesting you remove the E-kit...simply unhook it in the name of some troubleshooting, to narrow down possibilities, and hook it back up once you figure things out. Fuel pump replacement is QUITE a bit different than your first post of "got the bike back after service". If the tech did it by the letter of the book, he had your swingarm off, your fan either unhooked or out of the bike completely, and a LOT of the electrical system hanging loose back there. Take him a bag of star washers. Ask (TELL) him to install one on every single ground lead he touches, as he reinstalls them. If there is more than one wire on a bolt, stack them - bolt head; washer;wire;washer;wire;washer;chassis. The teeth not only keep the grounds from working loose, but they help bite through the powdercoat and give a better ground contact. I'm still baffled why they had your brake perch off, unless he did that for some reason to lube your throttle cables... And I still doubt you need an ECM. If the horn is coming on at the right *time* - just the wrong component is activating - my bet is either a loose ground, a chafed wire, or something is mis-plugged. And if he replaced the fuel pump...he had his hands on a LOT of connectors and wires on his way in and out. | ||
| Motorbike |
I have another idea about the grounds. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm not mistaken, I believe I read somewhere on Badweb that the fan runs when the ECM grounds it. In other words, the fan has power all the time and runs only when the ECM completes the circuit with a ground. In order for the ECM to ground the fan, the ECM itself must also be grounded to the chassis. Since the case or body of the ECM is plastic, which is an insulator, the ground has to be completed through the wiring harness and the connectors attached to the ECM. With this in mind, I would check the connections at the ECM plugs and once again, look for any ground wires that may have been left disconnected when they had your bike apart. (Message edited by motorbike on November 19, 2011) | ||
| Motorbike |
Timbobuell, sorry, I just read your last post and I now understand that your hands are tied because your bike is back at the dealer. I would be tempted to go get it and fix it myself. Only problem with that is that if it needs parts, you would have to foot the bill. Since they won't let you speak to the technician, I guess you are at their mercy. I have always found that these problems which seem totally bizarre are usually caused by one very simple oversight. I hope that is the case with yours. (Message edited by motorbike on November 19, 2011) | ||
| Timbobuell |
Again thanks to everyone who has posted here and special thanks to Ratbuell for all the input. As far as the as the brake perch being off I don’t remember that being stated. Just spoke with the technician, he agreed that something was lost in translation between him and I reference the GM thinking that I had modified or reflashed the ecu. All parties understand now that the bike is and has always been stock reference the ecu. The tech now knows that my main goal is to have my bike back like it was when it came in, all police equipment working perfectly as it was factory installed and with the original style flash that does not run the fan continually above a certain speed,. I’ve ridden a r1200gs a lot and really like my xp better. It just has soul. I want it back badly and I am tempted as was stated in the forums to take it back, cancel the extended warranty and get this thing right myself. However the mechanic that I spoke with today and has always worked on my bike it really good. Maybe something weird has happened and maybe he even made a mistake. I do believe he has a good heart and is trying to do the right thing. The GM after realizing the bike is stock is onboard also. The problem seems to be the communication at the service desk and with one person in particular. As of today I am bypassing them and speaking directly to the tech which eliminates a channel for confusion. As far as comments here reference ground issues I brought this up again with the tech just now empathizing the grounds relative anything dealing with the fuel pump replacement. When I get the bike back I would love to give it to someone private to do any ground mods needed. For now HD is on it and I am letting them run this thing out. I will post the final outcome. I am getting older, have many toys, love working on them but need people to work on my stuff. Just can’t keep up with it all. I did the full comfort kit myself and have taken the wheels off and done brakes myself. I enjoy it but if I do all the maintenance on all my toys there is no time to play with the toys. If I had someone local that was good with Buell I would avoid HD. My bike is rare and it’s wiring although original Buell is rare, police kit and stuff. I’ve seen several Buell cop bikes but mostly aftermarket police equipment in some fashion. Other than having the lights switched to white instead of blue and red (done at HD dealer replaced with identical whelen tr3 units and stated to be under full warranty), this bike is factory. Everything has worked great with the exception of blowing a fuel pump fuse until now. I want my baby back. | ||
| Timberwolf |
Other than having the lights switched to white instead of blue and red (done at HD dealer replaced with identical whelen tr3 units and stated to be under full warranty), this bike is factory I was wondering how you managed to get the XP with complete kit. I tried to buy one and was told it was illegal to sell it intact unless I could prove I was a LEO | ||
| Blake |
Next time walk in eating a doughnut and drinking some coffee?  | ||
| Timbobuell |
Response to Timberwolf about the police kit. I also was turned down at the first HD dealer when I asked about purchasing a Uly with cop kit. Too bad because it was a terrific salesman. The dealer was closed and he saw my wife and I in the parking lot looking through the window as he drove by. He pulled in the lot after hours and opened the shop for us. At that time it was the policy to not sell those bikes unless it was to a police force or security operation. I was even told they could not sell them to police for personal use. End of story Not really. Just a few weeks later it seemed HD was in a hurry to sell Buells. I simply would not close the deal (different dealership) unless it was agreed to keep the bike looking the way it was on the show room floor. They replaced the red and blue with white lights that were the exact same as what was on it. Actually all but the two big front lights were exteriorly the same color, the red and blue are from under the surface so they look the same. I also supplied copies of the GA state statues that state that white lights are ok. My understanding was that the horn/siren would be removed and a normal horn put on the bike. When I picked up the bike it remained. It is actually only a horn unless in emergency mode. The kit performs flawlessly and still did after the horn blowing instead of fan incident. I believe the cop computer has the horn blow to warn of an overheat condition. There is no documentation on this kit anywhere that I know of. Wish I had some information. The horn is very loud and I have only used it twice and both times it saved my wife on her bike form an accident. In both cases the vehicle that was about to hit her stopped immediately. It originally had a sticker warning of hearing damage. I saw one kit on eBay that was identical to mine. It was not sold on the auction I watched not meeting the reserve. |
