| Author | Message | ||
     Froggy |
Sorry to hear that. Thats like "I don't care my bike burns my leg" or "I don't care it literally shakes itself into pieces" or "I don't care my rear wheel bearings are going to fall apart". Things can always be done better. Aim high, never settle.
Good enough? It can be doubled without any effort. Sacrifice? You can make tremendous gains in fuel economy without any sacrifice (other than possibly costs to implement them depending on the solution).
You are mistaken, the problem has been around for a hundred years. Soon I can commute to work and consume zero gasoline. No need to fill up in the freezing cold or rain, fumbling around with my credit card and hoping I don't spill flammable substances over me and my vehicle. It will be a beautiful day when that occurs next year 
The Cruze still requires that nasty gasoline crap. Which reminds me, I saw two Volts on my way to work, and it made me jealous.
Which is interesting, I recall the older Priuses had EV mode disabled too meet requirements for the tax credit. I recall that Toyota used up all the tax credits already, so thats probably why its offered now.
Cool, my quick research was fruitless on how much it needed. Doesn't sound as bad as the XB for sure.
Still doesn't make it practical. You can tour on a shopping cart being dragged behind a Greyhound bus.
I didn't know a newer one even existed, everything I looked at before was about the 80's/90's model. The new one has an "R" at the end of the name, so searches weren't churning it up when I was searching without the "R".
Very well then. I think the big mistake that many are making is that currently they aren't aiming to replace primary bikes, but to complement them. I currently have 4.5 Buells in the garage, and have plenty of room for another in the fleet
Fantastic!
Yep, my 06 Uly cost me around 10 cents a mile in maintenance costs. $1800 over a 6 month/15,000 mile period. Oh and that was services, the two sets of tires I purchased added another grand. Part of why I like the 1125R more is that there is less crap to work on, the crap it does need is easier, and the intervals are further apart than the XB, so I am coming out ahead.
I drove a Prius the same way I drive my Buells and Suzuki 500 I used to have, the Prius does stomp it. The Blast does put up a good fight though!
But they don't. Mid size sedans get in the high 30's MPG, Small cars low 40's, compacts high 40s, hybrids in the 50+ range. Sportbikes get in the 30s, standards 40s, Harley cruisers in the 40s, low displacement bikes 50+. The XB12 is the only liter+ bike I am aware of that can break the 50mpg mark without effort. Motorcycles typically do good on gas due to their low weight and smaller engine displacements, but the dump truck aerodynamics counter it.
2 people traveling in a 40mpg car is the same as 2 people traveling on a 40mpg bike. Odds are you can stuff 2 more people in the car and some cargo, and you end up doubling the net fuel economy per person.
Funny how much the fuel economy jumps when you fix the biggest flaw of motorcycles, the aerodynamics. | ||
| Blake |
>>> The Cruze still requires that nasty gasoline crap. Which reminds me, I saw two Volts on my way to work, and it made me jealous. hahaha, sounds funny, until you realize that the Volt still requires that REALLY nasty coal crap. There is no free lunch. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
You can bet you'd get plenty of stares riding around in that thing. | ||
| Blake |
>>> I drove a Prius the same way I drive my Buells and Suzuki 500 I used to have, the Prius does stomp it. The Blast does put up a good fight though! You dodged. I said "on the highway". Hybrid tech is no help on the highway. What happened to 75 mpg on your 1125?  >>> But they don't. Again you dodged. I said "the average automobile" and "the average motorcycle". SUVs and light trucks are automobiles and comprise a HUGE segment of the automobile population in America. I've never gotten less than 40 MPH on the Uly. I've never ever exceeded that in any automobile, ever, anywhere. I did average 39 MPG on one leg (portion of a tank of fuel) driving Michele's Saab 9-3. | ||
| Blake |
>>> Funny how much the fuel economy jumps when you fix the biggest flaw of motorcycles, the aerodynamics. One person's flaw is another's glorious sense of freedom and being one with the environment. You more than most know that all too well. | ||
| H2opatrol |
http://touch.dailymotion.com/#/video/x557tg_nick-b urns-your-company-s-computer_fun This all seems vaguely familiar to an old SNL skit | ||
| Froggy |
Again, I have nuclear power.
Hybrid tech, while its strongpoint isn't highway, still works fantastic for it. It makes "pulse and glide" very easy, and returns great fuel economy numbers. Never broke 75mpg on my 1125 despite my best attempts.
Well you said automobiles, not specifically SUV and light trucks. Looking at Sept. 2011 numbers, the top 10 selling vehicles, 120k were full size pickups, 100k were sedans, and 39k were crossover small SUVs. http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2011/10/top-10- bestselling-cars-september-2011.html Looks like sales of large vehicles has picked back up, last time I checked the pickups had a smaller segment percentage, probably due to the price of gas. On the same token, "SUVs and light trucks are automobiles and comprise a HUGE segment of the automobile population in America." I don't have numbers to back me up, but I assume the vast majority of bikes sold in America are gas guzzling sportbikes and heavy cruisers. I don't see many gas sippers when I'm out riding. Despite that, fuel economy has been improving tremendously over the last few years on those large vehicles. The Tahoe Hybrid has a better EPA city number than the 4 cylinder Camry.
I know the 9-3 is good for an easy 45mpg if you prevent the turbo gauge from bouncing around
You mean arms getting sore from being turned into a kite at highway speeds on an unfaired bike, dealing with getting pelted by heavy rain and hail, damaging your skin with UV radiation from the sun? Yea, you can keep it. | ||
| Froggy |
Every day in my head I am like Nick Burns, if I actually did that on calls I probably wouldn't be employed long  | ||
| Blake |
>>> You mean arms getting sore from being turned into a kite at highway speeds on an unfaired bike, dealing with getting pelted by heavy rain and hail, damaging your skin with UV radiation from the sun? Yea, you can keep it. LOL! After reading that, I'm at a loss as you why you do. Your arms get sore from being turned into a kite? I've only ever ridden unfaired bikes and have no idea what you are talking about. >>> Hybrid tech, while its strongpoint isn't highway, still works fantastic for it. There is no hybrid regeneration while cruising down the highway. Pushing in the clutch to coast would accomplish the same as your pulse driving. Who the heck actually drives like that outside of some mileage contest? Not anyone wanting to actually get somewhere. In a contest to see who can get the best mileage, okay. I'm talking reality, getting from A to B at the speed limit. MPG on the highway: Advantage Motorcycle. Speed and acceleration? Advantage Motorcycle. Fun factor and freedom: Advantage Motorcycle. Who's Nick Burns? | ||
| H2opatrol |
Gotta watch the video. It will all come together... | ||
| Thejosh |
I agree, bikes are more fun, faster, and more economical.....for me anyways. You have to remember, I own both my Buells; no payments so buying a hybrid would not be a good economical decision. Anything beats a cage in my opinion. Sorry to hear that hybrids are more fun than bikes for Froggy. My Uly's been good to me, no "death shakes" or bearing failure coming up on 27k, even if it does decide to demand attention, still worth it for the enjoyment of riding and saving some $ on commuting. I ride for the joy of it, getting good mileage and cheaper wear and tear than a cage is just icing on the cake! | ||
| Sharkguy |
you have to adjust for lots of other parameters to compare bikes and cars. amt of oil used in the engine, tires, amount of machining to build the thing before it even hits the road, transportation costs to get it from the factory to the dealership, etc,etc. a bike will win hands down every time. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I - cant - comprehend - those - words - together... Woooooshhhhhhhhhpptptpptptptpt | ||
| Thejosh |
Maybe a turbo encabulator will increase mileage on cars in the future? | ||
| Froggy |
Beats the hell out of me too. It is expensive, dangerous, damaging to my health, cuts into my gaming time, and one of these days it will seriously bite me in the ass.
Rode nothing but my 1125R for two weeks, hopped back on the CR, and boy it hurt! It is one of those things you don't realize till you find out hard way.
But there is. The electric motor does provide some forward momentum even while on the highway.
Doesn't work on motorcycles, too much drag, the bikes slow down way too fast for pulse and glide to be effective.
Who the heck does 90+mph on the highway outside of a speed contest?
I do it, all the damn time.
Depends on the motorcycle, and depends on the car.
Again, depends on what vehicles you are comparing. My Blast has the acceleration of a run of the mill 4 cylinder sedan. My XB will outrun a Corvette, but there are sure faster cars out there than that.
One more time, depends on the vehicles. There are plenty of fun cars, and there are plenty of boring 4 cylinder chain drive plasticlad bikes.
Your car also needs $500 in tires every oil change?
Thats not really a fair comparison, you can pickup a hybrid vehicle without taking on payments. May require selling the Buells, but it can be done.
But they aren't. I am yet to drive a hybrid that I enjoyed.
Do the math on it, factor in all the costs of riding, tires, fluids, labor, gear, insurance, registration, etc. You will quickly see that short of commuting in a fully loaded semi, the bike is never the better choice economically. The few pennies you *may* save on gas are quickly eaten alive in other costs. | ||
| Thejosh |
I disagree, insurance on both my bikes is $200 a year. Insurance on the car is about $60 a month. (i own both so no full coverage) What I save on gas in one year, can buy 2 years worth of tires. ( comparing my Uly @48mpg vs. my Focus @29mpg.). Then there's the fluids, yes the Uly eats more oil, but the oil for my car is twice the price. Cars use more tranny fluid, brake fluid, windshield fluid, powersteering fluid, clutch fluid, and coolant. My bike just needs oil and brake fluid. As for gear, helmet, jacket and gloves for $200 span that over the 6 years that I've been riding and it adds up to $33.34 a year. I believe I've spent more than that on wiper blades for the car. I believe the point is that for speed, economy, and fun, no other vehicle can provide what a motorcycle does. Yes there are cars that get better mileage than my bike...but they aren't as fast or fun. Yes there are cars that are faster than my bike.....but they aren't as economical. I believe my bike is the best way to save money and have fun whilst commuting to work. | ||
| Guell |
Im with Josh on this one, its far more economical to commute on the bike than in my pickup truck that gets 18-20 on the highway on a really good day. | ||
| 12x9sl |
Froggy, I don't know what year Corvette you are racing. I'd like to see your xb outrun any C6 generation 'Vette. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
KTM Electric http://www.gizmag.com/ktm-freeride-e-electric-moto rcycle-specs/20482/ | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
http://blog.motorcycle.com/2011/11/09/motorcycle-n ews/eicma-2011-ktm-freeride-e-unveiled/ | ||
| Buewulf |
Yeah, that KTM is pretty neat, and it would almost certainly be better built for my intentions than the Zero MX. My local dealer hasn't received any indication of price from KTM, though, and said that the initial production run is expected to be very small. He said I was the only person to ever ask about it. I have also seen contradictory info on the motor - some reviews say it is brushless, others say it is brushed. I have also seen max power range of 10 minutes and 1hr (don't beleive the latter, but who knows.) Brammo is also introducing an MX-style bike with a tranny. http://www.brammo.com/engage/ Plus, for street bikes, their Empulse is the best looking electric bike out there. Heck it is just a great looking motorcycle, period. And it has a tranny too! http://www.brammo.com/empulse/ They don't have a dealer anywhere close to me though. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
I'd rather go with the belt drive and then you'd really have a bike without much at all for maintenance. The KTM seems more like a bike if you owned a ranch to tool around on. | ||
| Froggy |
Lucky, I spend about $250 a MONTH on bike insurance.
Doesn't add up. Assuming $3.75 a gallon regular, 4.05 super, driving both 15,000 miles a year (you never did say how far you drive each), that is a savings of $674 a year, which is about the same as one set of tires, and good luck getting 15,000 miles out of those tires. Also, why is your 4 cylinder car getting V8 fuel economy? I would get it fixed.
Again we are missing info, how does oil cost twice as much on the car? Syn3 is $13 a quart, so are you spending $26 a quart for something for your car?
Wrong. Are you replacing all those fluids every 5000 miles like the Uly? No.
And transmission fluid, and fork oil.
I find that hard to believe unless you don't actually ride. All my gear lasts 2 years tops before being worn out to the point that they are no longer safe to use. Even my almighty Aerostich is in need of repair. Gloves become tattered and fall apart, boots lose the soles, helmets get nasty and deteriorate, visors no longer seal right, vents break. Zippers tear, wires fray, joints pull apart. I lose another grand a year replacing worn out gear. Also, it isn't cheap crap gear.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-tech-performanc e/1893326-c6-1-4-mile-performance-challenge.html Those showroom stock times looks about the same if not slightly slower than a XB showroom stock. It probably will come down to the driver skill. | ||
| Buewulf |
Did Tiffany's get into the autoparts business or something? Where are you guys living that you pay $3G for insurance, $13 quart for oil, $4.05 for a gallon of gas and $674 for tires? | ||
| Froggy |
New York, those moneys went to Progressive, Harley Davidson, Sunoco, Harley Davidson again. | ||
| Buell_lee |
Australia but gas is at least $5.00 a gallon | ||
| Thejosh |
29 is avg city/highway. Commute to work is 27 miles one way. I would like to see a V8 get that kinda avg MPG. I don't care about highway, average MPG is how you measure efficiency. V8's can get 40mpg if they are doing 60 with a tailwind. I would like to see a V8 make my commute and bring in 29MPG, in-freaking-possible. I ride 90% of the time between the months of February and November. 2.5 quarts of oil every 2500 miles vs. 4 quarts of oil every 3000, which do YOU think is cheaper? Bottom line, what I spend in one year of gas driving a car far surpasses all of the expenditures of my motorcycle, not even including service and parts for the car. | ||
| Thejosh |
BTW, if you're spending more than $300 on a set of tires (even pirelli's), you're getting ripped off. | ||
| Froggy |
Well thats easy. Hard to say for sure without knowing your commute, but it is doable.
If you are changing your oil every 2500 miles, you are getting ripped off. I will do the math just to humor you. 15,000 miles a year. Ulysses, 6 oil changes. $13 a quart Syn3 times 3 quarts (because they don't sell halfs, and you are probably going to burn some anyway). $39 for oil plus $7 filter. $46 per change times 6 is $276. Again, you are overpaying by changing the oil too much. Lets see how the car does. 5 oil changes, $18 gallon of Valvoline at Autozone, $4 Fram filter. Total is $22 per change, times five gets you $110. Again, you are still changing your oil way too often. Where is this magic tire place that I can bring my bike and get a brand new set of Pirelli Corsa III installed for $300? The rear tire alone runs you $339 retail. | ||
| Thejosh |
Motorcycle superstore has the best tire deals and will ship free to your front door, then with a couple tire spoons, a six pack, and thirty minutes later you're ready to balance! So here is the problem with your math. You are assuming that I run the greatest lube on earth in my bike, and poo poo oil in my car. Let's say I run SAE Valvoline in both, so $5 a quart. Then there's the filter, I use K&N on both so $11. Insurance on the bike is $15 a month, insurance on the car is $60 a month. I'm not even going to go into gear, I've had the same leather jacket for the past five years and have it well kept and still looks new, mainly because we could argue about airfresheners being part of a cars gear. Anyways, since I do my own maintenance, I like to turn my rotors and change pads every 20k or so on the car. So for 10,000 miles, the bike comes out waaaaay on top. But if you were to compare having two bikes vs. One car then I would have to agree. But Uly vs. Focus? Uly is way more economical for me. As for changing my oil every 2500 miles, it comes down to sludge concentration. More volume would help disperse sludge and other build up in an engine, since the Uly only carries 2.5 quarts, it is easier to concentrate a small amount, change the oil often and I don't have to worry about deposits. Like I said, I do my own maintenance, so oil changes are cheap. |
