| Author | Message | ||
     Johnboy777 |
I've decided to keep my '07 Uly, after test riding a new Tiger 1050 w/ ABS last weekend. Nice bike buy not as comfy on my 6'3" 250# frame. Love the triple engine, though. Very nice. So here goes. What are my options with regard to the crank problems/potential problem? I won't ride it waiting for it to grenade somewhere away from home. Spending two thousand max, seems okay, I would lose more than that on a new ride, riding it out the door. Let's talk PM (preventative maintenance) opinions here, spending 1,500 to 2k What do I do to the engine and who would I use. I won't buy a new/used '08 engine - given that option, I should just sell mine and buy an '08. Thanks ... | ||
| Jomartijr |
I'm planning on having oil sample analysis done, baseline now, and figure the crank is ok until I see suspect metals. I'm guessing I can't name the company who does this on this website but can provide it via pm. I will say he goes into considerable detail other than just measurement- that is interprets results. Once my low miles bike ( approx 6k) begins shedding unusual parts per million metal I'll decide what to do then. Selling is probably out so then I'll either wholesale it or spend the $$ and have Darkhorse do an 08 crank. Sure would be interesting to know what Darkhorse's findings are on doing their first 07 crank rebuild. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
""I'll either wholesale it or spend the $$ and have Darkhorse do an 08 crank."" Doing an '08 crank on an '07, does that necessitate any other changes to ECM or cases, etc. Also,(to your knowledge) are '07 non-Ulys having this show up as well? I can’t imagine this is just a Uly problem. One final thought here, I imagine they raced '07s ... how were those cranks prepared? .. (Message edited by johnboy777 on August 24, 2011) | ||
| Hughlysses |
Doing an '08 crank on an '07, does that necessitate any other changes to ECM or cases, etc. According to Darkhorse, the only change required is changing the left side crankcase bearing to the 08-up part. They also recommended align-honing the right side bushing. Also,(to your knowledge) are '07 non-Ulys having this show up as well? I can’t imagine this is just a Uly problem. We haven't seen reports of other models but that's inconclusive. One final thought here, I imagine they raced '07s ... how were those cranks prepared? Darkhorse could tell you that. I believe that's actually what led to the development of the 08 crankshaft. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Thanks Hugh & Jomartijr, I'll give Darkhorse a call. . | ||
| Jomartijr |
Glad to pass on the info. Darkhorse looks like a good bet on the crank work for sure. And I'm comfortable with engine removal but disassembly and reassembly of the engine is new territory and though I have a shop manual it looks like work for trained head/hands. Anyone do this engine teardown and reassy themselves and come out with a good result? I've rebuilt small block Chevies but this is all new stuff. | ||
| Froggy |
All 07 XB12's have the same crank, so they should be affected too, but given that Ulys are more likely to see touring duty, they will rack up the miles faster. The bottom end has been a weakspot on the older XB bikes, especially if they see race duty or other constant high RPM uses. That was part of the reasoning behind the new design on the 08s. | ||
| Andymnelson |
lol, nice quote Frogman | ||
| Johnboy777 |
I spoke with John from Darkhorse just now - nice guy. He said the '08+ cranks lasted 3 times as long as the '07 cranks in their racing program. '08+ cranks have 1.5" crank pins vs. the 1.25" crank pins on the '07 and older. Also, I can just tear down the top end, remove clutch, etc. and not split the cases and send that assembly in. They will disassemble and reassemble with new crank. Seems doable. ... | ||
| Hughlysses |
John- glad you talked to Darkhorse. He was very helpful when I talked to him, but the cost of shipping my cases, plus having him do the work, plus all the other replacement parts I would have had to buy (cylinders, pistons, oil pump, etc.) would have nearly equaled the cost of my 2009 engine swap, so I opted for the swap. Outside of the crank work, I don't think rebuilding the engine would be bad at all. Good luck. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
I can't for the life of me arrive at any reason why this is effecting only Ulys. A.) Ulys are operated at a more constant RPM during their life - during touring mode B.) Ulys are more likely to be operated under heavier loads, two-up, etc. C.) The greater loads on the rear axle because of the susp. set up, causes more engine load. There has to be a logical explanation here. ... | ||
| Froggy |
Yes, the Ulys gets ridden more. Good luck finding 20k+ 07 Firebolts. They do exist, just not many. | ||
| Froggy |
I have no idea how that happened... I need to check the calibration of the post hamsters. | ||
| Union_man |
Johnboy777 Did you happen to get a price quote? | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Frog, I thought that was just me not having a clue about what you were writing again. | ||
| Hughlysses |
John- I suppose another possibility is the Uly engines are the only ones with the problem. While all the XB12 engines in any year model are theoretically identical, maybe these Ulys wound up with a bad "lot" of engines (which means these engines wound up with a bad "lot" of crankshafts). I'm thinking it could be that Buell received a shipment (or 2) of engines in 2007 that all wound up in Ulys and coincidentally these engines are the ones with the bad cranks. It may have nothing to do with the bikes themselves. | ||
| Jomartijr |
Lot number traceability is required in most manufacturing organizations and I imagine the records are on file at HD Engine plant ( York?). Sure would be interesting to have a look at the lot number(s) for those cranks and track to what bikes received them. I'm sure all we'd have to do is ask... | ||
| Johnboy777 |
""Did you happen to get a price quote?"" Yeah I did, but I rather not say here in fairness to Darkhorse. You can pick and choose what you'd like to have done, and the price is reflective of that process. They are nice folks, if you'd care to speak w/ them. ... | ||
| Johnboy777 |
""I'm thinking it could be that Buell received a shipment (or 2) of engines in 2007 that all wound up in Ulys and coincidentally these engines are the ones with the bad cranks. It may have nothing to do with the bikes themselves"" Didn't Ulys come down the same line with all of the other various Buell XB12 models mixed in? I don't know. Maybe someone familiar w/ the Buell production line at the time, could chime in. This can't be coincidence. ... | ||
| Hughlysses |
Didn't Ulys come down the same line with all of the other various Buell XB12 models mixed in? I don't know. IIRC, they'd do a run of XB12X's, then a run of XB12R's, then a run of XB12S's, etc. I'm sure Froggy or someone else that toured the factory knows. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Also, how many Uly's versus other XB12's were made in 2007? We have a rash of failures for sure, but it's still in the single digits, so I doubt we are up to even 1% of the 2007 Uly's built. And a couple of the failures were 06 anyway. So statistically, we can't really come to any meaningful conclusions at this point. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
""So statistically, we can't really come to any meaningful conclusions at this point."" There were 9,500, or so, made altogether, all years. How many Uly owners do we have on just the Big Bad forum section? 100, 200..? (maybe Blake or Froggy know) Just for S&G, say 200. 8 out of 200 is 4% ... and that's for all years of Ulys. The '07 'only' percentage could potentially be much much higher. Better yet, if there was a way to figure out how many '07 owners are in the Big Bad section, against the # of failures - there's your percentage right there. This could be statistically very significant. ... | ||
| Reepicheep |
We need at least 32 samples to be statistically significant... that part is easy. But they also must be randomly sampled, that will be the really hard part. To offset the fact that we don't have random sampling, we will need more samples. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
I didn't mean 'statistically significant' in the scientific sense, but okay. Sounds like you're the right person to ask this question; in automotive circles, what percentage of defects is considered 'statistically significant' ...is there a way to find this. We don't ride cars; but just looking for a quick and dirt comparison here. Thanks | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Ya know, the more I think on this, if it’s anything even remotely approaching 5%, it’s horrendous. That’s one in twenty. What if one in twenty ’07 mustangs blew their engines? Good Grief. ... | ||
| Reepicheep |
Good example. Based on postings on this board, Ford V8's between 2004 and 2008 *are* horrendous. My neighbors Ford Expedition (second motor at 40k miles, replacement motor having issues as well) backs that up. But it's not statistically significant, because it's not a controlled random sample. I guess I'm not looking for objective truth, nor looking to sling stones. I'm just looking to see if there is something I could or should do for a 2007 Uly preventatively. So far, I'm not seeing anything that gives me ideas. There were three VIN's in very close proximity that had the crank fail, but others not near it that also failed, and the total number is still very small. So at this point I am interested for sure, but not seeing anything actionable (inspect, rebuild proactively, sell the bike, whatever). | ||
| Johnboy777 |
""But it's not statistically significant, because it's not a controlled random sample."" Good grief, Charlie Brown. When did this turn into the Scientific American Forum? ... | ||
| Court |
>>>But it's not statistically significant, because it's not a controlled random sample. That's part of the problem. Statistically, as odd as it sounds, pulling ANY sample off an internet bulletin board or chat group, pretty much violates some of the basic premises of the sampling process by "fishing in a bucket". On the other hand, nominal numbers can warrant looking at the population. | ||
| Union_man |
I will try to post a copy of the parts list will be required to fix my '07. I am no expert on deciphering part number meanings but it looks like the crank and crank bearing have been updated Part # from the originals. How do you post a scanned document to this board? | ||
| Froggy |
Union man, send it to me. |
