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Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 02:43 pm: | 
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quote:Most of the time my bags and trunk are empty or removed. I rode a little Kawasaki KLR 250 over 5,000 miles in 2 summers with absolutely no failures. So, the overloading must be from excess belt tension, as many here suspect?
Huh? Because you rode a KLR-250 5000 miles without a bearing failure, if a bearing fails on any other bike that has a belt, the belt must be too tight? That math doesn't work.
(You may have the right conclusion, you just didn't support it with that contention).
Besides, your Buell starter motor probably makes more power than the KLR-250 did on a good day. 
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Motorbike
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 04:29 pm: |
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Huh? Because you rode a KLR-250 5000 miles without a bearing failure, if a bearing fails on any other bike that has a belt, the belt must be too tight? That math doesn't work.
You are right, that was stupid. My only point was that I am big and the KLR 250 is small and it held up just fine.
Back to the bearing analysis, I guess we may never know the answer. Too many variables. I am going with the 2010 setup and I hope I never have to pull the wheel again, except for tire changes. Thanks for all the replies. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 09:11 pm: |
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I like the speculation! And I'm a fan of the KLR-250 too. Though I think I remember enjoying the KLR more than I actually enjoyed riding it for the most part... but that's part of their charm.
The 2010 setup is great. Its nice to just solve the problem.
I'm have a replacement set of bearings and spacers on the shelf (and in the side bag on a trip), and I just check my bearings at every oil change, and give them a quick visual before rides.
And I think when I replace my worn belt with a new one (worn becomes a hot spare), I will drill out my tensioner hole just a little... as I do feel a "binding" on the Uly that I never felt on the 9sx if I really mash out the suspension.
I appreciate the information you posted Al.
Tell me about the KLR! Did you run knobbies, or dual sport tires? And how long did it take for your fan temp sensor to go? About 5 hours after that picture was taken above, I spun a cam in the head of that bike trying to outrun storms and get off the Cherohola alive... Blew up the bike, and *still* got soaked! |
Wbrisett
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 09:50 pm: |
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So, here's a question. How in the heck did you guys get those rotor bolts off? My 2010 wheel came in today and so, I got the wheel off, tire off, then couldn't for the life of me get the rotor bolts off (I haven't tried the belt side yet).
I tried applying heat to the underside of the bolt mounts on the wheel, but they still didn't budge. I ended up stripping a couple of the T-40 heads.  Looks like I also damaged my T-40 socket head while trying to get them off.
I think tomorrow I'm going to head over to one of the MC repair shops and see if they have any clues.
Wayne |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 09:56 pm: |
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hm.
again.
my '06 has black seal bearings with over 20k on them. never picked the seal. never 'maintained' the bearings. have ridden solo and overloaded (like a full trip to buelltoberfest...twice. or wvbr. or daytona. loaded to camp every time, all three bags plus the passenger seat). have ridden two-up and overloaded (like the 3 day trip around lake michigan plus three days' stay at homecoming with all our luggage and cameras and laptop and crap). no aftermarket belt tensioner. no gimmicks or 'fixes'. and with 20k...that would be FOUR tires on the rear. three wheel removal/install cycles. proper torque. never washed, but ridden in the rain a LOT.
there may be a reason they're called 'sealed' bearings. not just 'covered' bearings.
just sayin'. |
Natexlh1000
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 09:56 pm: |
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I'm pretty sure my 1989 KLR250 had two bearings on the sprocket side.
But I'm not sure since they lasted the life of the bike @29000 miles.
Poor little thing. I took that thing to sand pits and up stairs and worst of all on long highway rides revving it 7500 RPM all day long. |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 09:58 pm: |
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wayne - their clue will be an impact gun.
mine too.
i bought an 18v dewalt 1/2 inch drive impact recently and have no idea how i lived so long without it! |
Wbrisett
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 05:54 am: |
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Ratbuell... I suspect the same. I just hope I didn't bugger up the torx heads too much for him to get them off. Does the belt side come off any easier, or should I just have him get both sides off at the same time?
Wayne |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 08:03 am: |
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Do both while its there. Why make a second trip?
(I'm assuming you already have new bolts, for the new wheel...) |
Alchemy
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 08:07 am: |
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Yeah, I broke a couple torx sockets trying to get the rear rotor off. I finally took it to a shop and paid for it to be removed. He (shop guy) broke some tools getting them off as well but off it came and I was happy to pay the bill. |
Wbrisett
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 08:14 am: |
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Good point Ratbuell, and I decided last night after giving up that I was going to have both side done. Actually, I'm an idiot and only bought the rotor side bolts, so now I have to see if my local shop has a set of the sprocket screws in stock.
Alchemy, I'm glad I'm not the only one who has broken tools trying to get these things off. I do think an impact driver is next on my list though.
Wayne |
Etennuly
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 08:27 am: |
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If you get a bolt that the impact does not want to turn apply heat gun until it is hot enough that you cannot touch it, then apply a good set of vise grip pliers to the outside of the bolt, put as much turning force as the pliers will apply in the correct direction, then making sure the bit is bottomed in the bolt head at a direct perpendicular angle.....apply the impact wrench fast and hard until it starts to turn. Once it is broken loose take the pliers off and have at it.
I attempted to remove the first one I did with a high torque 3/8" air impact wrench with no results. My 1/2" air impact has yet to fail to easily remove them even cold. |
Uly_dude
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 09:27 am: |
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I messed with those bolts to when I did my 2010 wheel. And yes, both sides are difficult to remove. As I reassembled the new wheel, I seriously thought about replacing the large torque screws with a normal hex head bolt. Something you can really put some torque on without breaking bits. But then I figured I'll never be doing this job again and just reinstalled the same type of bolts. |
Towpro
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 09:51 am: |
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I figure the Buell engineers already did a failure analysis on the Uly bearing problem.
The resulting changes are as follows.
1) Larger bearing on the LS
2) Two bearings on the RS that are larger.
3) Real seals to protect the sealed bearings from exposure to elements on the outside.
Looking at these results, it looks like they feel the failures were caused by Undersized bearings that could be suffering from premature death because of seal failure. |
Motorbike
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 09:51 am: |
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Well guys, I was planning to spend part of my day off today pressing my new bearings in the 2010 wheel and getting this thing back on the road again. Imagine my disappointment when I opened the box and found all the parts were there...except one. They forgot to order the spacer that goes between the bearings. So now it will be at least another week before I am ready to go. Such is life.
Tell me about the KLR! Did you run knobbies, or dual sport tires? And how long did it take for your fan temp sensor to go?
My KLR was purchased new in 2004. Completely stock. I was just happy to have a bike at all after going without for about 8 years when my girls were real young. It was a perfect bike, no problems at all. I wish I still had it as a backup ride!
When I took the sprocket and rotor off my stock 08 XT wheel, I too had trouble getting the bolts loose. I first gave them few taps with a punch and hammer, directly on the top of the bolt head. They all broke loose with hand tools except the last two on the rotor side. I was using brand new Torx drivers from my Craftsman set. The bits were starting to round off by the time I got to the last bolt. When I realized they were not going to budge, I drilled the head of the bolt off, being very careful to not drill into the rotor. I then used a Vise-Grip to remove the rest of the bolt. I have all new bolts and washers to use on the new wheel. Sears warranteed the whole set of sockets, so I can put it back together when my spacer gets here. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 12:33 pm: |
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Nice looking KLR-250! I don't think I have seen one in red before. Nor clean, shiny, and with the tool pouch still there. |
Natexlh1000
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 02:00 pm: |
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My '89 was mostly white with blue seat.
They basically didn't change a damn thing for 30 years except for colors!
I remember that tool pouch was PERFECT fit for two VHS tapes.
Also, I remember that if it was raining, the tool pouch would be very wet inside as the bolts holding it to the fender went all the way through. |
Steveford
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 08:55 pm: |
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For the rear wheel bearings, is this problem confined mostly to
the Ulysses
the XB12 models in general or
all of the models that use the Buell wheel (XB9, XB12, and 1125s)?
I guess what I'm getting at is the XB9 exempt due to the lower hp and torque? |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 10:06 pm: |
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mostly ulysses.
easiest to (regularly) (over)load to over the gross vehicle weight rating. |
Wbrisett
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 10:22 pm: |
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Well, the indie shop down the street from my work, got them off. He told me that if I ever had rotor bolts stick again, the trick is to put something flat on them (metal bar or such) and give it a good whack (several of them), that he says breaks the loctite on the bolt and then they come right out. He also mentioned heating the area to loosen the loctite, but said he didn't like doing that because it also weakens the bolt and there is a higher chance of the bolt breaking.
Anyhow, took me about an hour to remount the tire, put on the rotor and belt pulley (I'm glad I paid the extra $20 and had Al at American Sportbike press the bearings in for me, made it way too easy... Thanks Al!). Took her out for a quick spin and everything seems OK. I'll take the Uly to work tomorrow and see how it goes, but I think the '10 wheel is going to work out fine.
Oh, and I stopped by the local bolt shop, picked up six auto grade bolts that are exactly the same except instead of a T-40 head, they are an Allen head. Total cost for all six was $1.56 with tax. I think HD charges $2 a bolt for the rotor side.
Wayne |
Djohnk
| | Posted on Friday, August 05, 2011 - 11:48 am: |
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I will try that next time. I stripped one of my rotor bolts and had to get a welder to weld a nut to it in order to remove it. It only cost $10, but it was inconvenient.
Good idea on getting different bolts, I might do that also, I am still riding with one of the bolts missing. |
Motorbike
| | Posted on Friday, August 05, 2011 - 12:06 pm: |
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The service manual states that the bolts on the rotor and sprocket must not be re-used.
I suppose serious injury or death may occur.
I am replacing all of mine, including the washers. |
Motorbike
| | Posted on Friday, August 05, 2011 - 12:16 pm: |
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Does anyone have the exact specs on the length of the 2010 wheel bearing spacer? I suppose I could have my stock 08 spacer professionally shortened by a good machine shop if my new one does not show up? I do realize it would have to be exact or I will be doing this all over again.
Also, I see the new bearings from H-D are FAG brand. Are these any good? Thanks. |
Johnboy777
| | Posted on Friday, August 05, 2011 - 12:53 pm: |
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""For the rear wheel bearings, is this problem confined mostly to
the Ulysses
the XB12 models in general""
There was an article in Fuell Magazine where an engineer (IIRC) stated that because of the Uly
design that it put an additional 50% stress on the belt/rear wheel.
I think there are numerous contributing factors here - and that is one. |
Rr_eater
| | Posted on Friday, August 05, 2011 - 02:34 pm: |
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You guys all talk about overloading the Ulys causing the excessive stress on the belt, weird.
I say that, as I had my wife and daughter sit on mine in the garage, together about 400 lbs (they are both 6' or taller guys, so be nice) and weirdly enough, my belt gets looser as the suspension compresses........
Hmmm, I wonder if LIGHTER riders and loads, thus less compression, are actually under more constant stress and tension......
JUST my .02 |
Panhead_dan
| | Posted on Friday, August 05, 2011 - 09:10 pm: |
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I have one here if you want me to measure it. My mic does not go that big but I'm sure I can finagle something with a degree of accuracy. |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Friday, August 05, 2011 - 11:20 pm: |
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the belt tension is only one of the loads the bearing takes.
weight adds to the load through the bearing, from outer race, to inner race, to axle, to inner race, to outer race. it "squishes" the bearing.
more weight, more squish.
a little bit of wear, and the inner race has more freedom to move out of place when it all gets squished. |
Etennuly
| | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2011 - 02:00 am: |
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Don't forget the Uly has the long suspension travel the other XB's don't have. |
Gunut75
| | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2011 - 12:59 pm: |
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I think HD charges $2 a bolt for the rotor side.
I bought a chin fairing screw from the HD dealer, and it was around $4 or something crazy. Even the harley riders at the counter were laughing. I go to Natiional Cap and Screw for all the bolts and nuts on the bike. I get em in boxes of 50. |
Steveford
| | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2011 - 11:22 pm: |
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For rotor and sprocket bolts (or anything else which is in danger of rounding out), go to a hardware store and pick up a big brass drift and smash the bolt with a big hammer on the drift.
If it won't budge, give it another smack or two.
Works like a charm plus you get to vent some of your frustrations. Different sized drifts for different sized bolts, of course.
An idea for a helmet sticker just occured to me:
No Fat Chicks - Wheel Bearings May Explode
(Message edited by SteveFord on August 06, 2011) |
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