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Sprintex
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 08:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This year my 06 with 18K on it started using oil. About every 600 miles I'm down to the add line. I know when it is getting low when the fan kicks in (comfort kit installed) at cool temps, like this morning coming into work at 75F out.
I use Mobil 1, 15 50. Are my rings shot? No outside leaks.
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Natexlh1000
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 10:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I doubt your rings are shot.
I would suggest trying a non-synth oil just to see if it's different, either better or worse.
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Hughlysses
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 11:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

+1, unless you have some kind of catastrophic failure like I had. Other possible culprits are valve seals and the crankshaft seal. Leaking crankshaft seal will cause your primary oil level to rise.
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Uly_man
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 12:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I know some will say otherwise, and thats ok, but I think the 20/50 grade oil is best. Fully synths are not needed and Im not to sure about how suited to the engine they are.

Apart from that if it looses no more dont worry on it.
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Etennuly
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 12:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Oil too thin. Hot temperatures thin oil goes away. Read Service Manual for ideas on keeping oil in tank.

I lost 2quarts in 500 miles once. Oil too thin. Back to book....oil stays in.


That is all I am going to say about that except for two things.....teflon tape....OKRA!!!
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Sprintex
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 01:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

20 50 to thin?
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Natexlh1000
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 02:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The lower number is the weight equivalent when cold. Perhaps 15 is different enough from 20 on a cold engine?
Perhaps a cold engine has looser tolerances?
Perhaps perhaps perhaps......

It's easier to try different oil than thinking.
It's cheaper to try different oil than fixing a "problem" that may not even exist.
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Towpro
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 02:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

How much oil (measurement in ounces) do you have to add every 600 miles?

(Message edited by towpro on July 21, 2011)
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Etennuly
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 02:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

We found on the '06's and others that full is usually at the second X from the bottom of the dip stick. It can and will stay at that level on most bikes. Trying to maintain it at the top of the X's will usually require cleaning it out of the air box base now and again.

20 50 to thin?

So you did not look at the Service Manual oil chart?
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Invisible_monster
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 03:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Rocker box leak?
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Sprintex
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 03:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Don't have it at here work. I'll check it when I get home and don't melt on the way, 98 and very humid here in CT. Can't wait to feel the heat off the fuel rails, frame.
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Johnboy777
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 06:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm running 50 weight dino oil from HD this summer.
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Blake
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 06:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

>>> So you did not look at the Service Manual oil chart?

Vern, as I explained in our other oil grade discussion, the grades recommended in the owner's manual versus temperature are concerned with minimum operating temperature and the oil being too thick. You've got it converse to what is intended.
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Towpro
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 08:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I do recall others saying they if you fill it to the top of the stick it quickly goes down to the lower marks, then stops moving. Something about blowing it out into the air box.
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Teeps
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 08:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've run straight 50 in my '06; made no difference with regard to oil consumption or fan operation. But, my Uly has always been a fickle beast, on many levels.
Long as oil is on the stick, run it. When the oil is very near the end of the stick, it's time for an oil change... Your mileage may vary.
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2011 - 12:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

How you ride also affects oil consumption.

How you have the rear suspension set affects the appearance of oil consumption.

Oil is relatively cheap. If there is some in the case and it ain't running bad or smoking, I wouldn't worry about it.

My first car was a 75 VW Bug. They were known to lose up to a quart of oil per 2500 miles. They didn't even have an airbox to blow oil into.

Air cooled engines have looser tolerances because of the greater range of temps required in operation.
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Etennuly
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2011 - 08:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Blake, Why do you think I have the book's temperature chart convoluted?

If I start the bike at ten am and the temperature is 80F, wherein I ride through the afternoon at temps up to 100F, what is it you see wrong with using the chart to fit the temperatures I ride?

If I get up at six am when the temp is 65F and I still don't get the bike out until ten when the temperature is 80F.....I think I am reading the chart correctly.....that the minimum recommended temp for 60W is 80F(it will suffer on starting below 50F). I am riding from 80F degrees and up. I did not study rocket oil science, but perhaps you should educate me on what you think I am doing incorrectly according to the chart.



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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2011 - 08:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Is seems that the chart is recommending the heaviest oil that the minimum ambient temperature will allow.
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Od_cleaver
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2011 - 09:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sprintex,

Have you done any recent modifications to your engine breather system?

I am thinking that if you have re-routed your breather hoses, you may have kinked a hose or crushed a hose with a zip tie. This could create higher internal engine pressure forcing oil past the rings.

It has been said earlier in this thread, that if you are trying to keep your oil too high, the engine is just going to blow the excessive oil out through your breather hoses. The mid-west and now the east coast is going thru a nice summer heat spell. With that said, only check your oil after a long run and don’t fill it more than half the way up the dip stick. (I suspect that you do this already, but restating the obvious sometimes doesn’t hurt.)


And to add to the oil discussion….

Synthetic oils should always be better then non-synthetic because the Hydro-Carbon chains in the base oil are much more uniform in length with synthetic oils. New engines or old engines, it does not matter.

Taking my oil of choice Mobil 1 V Twin 20W50 as an example, the 20 is the viscosity of the base stock of the oil. Mobil adds “viscosity extenders” to get the high temperature performance of the oil to have the viscosity of a 50 weight oil at high temperature. Viscosity extenders do not add to the lubricating properties of the oil. A manufacturer needs to add more of the non lubricating viscosity extenders to 15W50 then he would to a 20W50. Therefore, assuming that we are not starting our engine at 30 degrees, the 20W50 oil should lubricate better than the 15W50 oil for all operating temperatures.

Straight weight oil users are nuts, UNLESS they keep their motorcycles warm. For most of us, this would be going back 50 years in the development of oils.

That is all that I know and I am sticking to it.

(Message edited by od_cleaver on July 22, 2011)
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Etennuly
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2011 - 11:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Straight weight oil users are nuts, UNLESS they keep their motorcycles warm. For most of us, this would be going back 50 years in the development of oils.

Fifty years AFTERthe development of our air head engines!

So the consensus seems to be the guys who wrote our service manual are idiots, that is to include their torque specs on the drain plug also.

I don't want my personal experience to muddle things here too bad, but I had the same problem the OP had. In about 500 miles I lost two quarts of oil(a Saturday and Sunday of riding in 95F+ temps, much of it above 100F). I was using HD's 20-50 in a fresh oil change. I did so because I was out of 50W on my shelf.(all this recommended stuff). I then switched my City-X to 60W HD goo for the end of the summer season, from which NO oil loss was noted in 3000 miles at my next oil change. Following the chart has worked the same for the Uly.

I spoke to a mechanic where I bought the bike with my concerns about the oil loss. He went into a dissertation on oils having just been through a HD training class on oil. He recommended staying to the book. I have done so, and have not had any oil related losses or problems since. He then said that if I would like he could take it in to disassemble the engine to see where the oil went.


My opinion here was to help the OP with an exact problem I had and what solved it for me. If you all are promoting synthetic oil and staid use of 20-50.....I don't care, but you are not helping him. He is all ready there, having started with Mobil 1 before broken in, the rings are probably not seated well enough and allowing super thin, super slippery oil past the gate.

Being from the far NE where temperatures will probably not stay high for long or be that high in the mornings for long, I would think to have him try straight 50W for now, but plan on changing it when the morning ride temps go down, and as the mornings are cooler for you, let it warm up longer before riding.
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05mxdiesel
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2011 - 02:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My 06 with 25k doesn't use any oil with Amsoil 20w50 in it. I was adding oil for awhile in the beginning until I kept it at the second x on the dipstick because of it blowing into the intake being overfilled. I also change oil between 4-5k which equals to about a year.}
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Od_cleaver
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2011 - 03:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Etennuly,

You know very well that these engines have undergone many changes since they were introduced. Just like motor oils. Even the 60W ones.

Yes, I agree with you, the drain plug torque spec writer was an idiot. I like to think that he was the same guy who did the original heat management ducting, the same guy that did the wiring, the same guy that placed the EMC in the heat up against the seat, etc. That way only one idiot (besides the current one) worked on my Uly.

I wanted to help the OP as well. This is why I opened with a question about his breather hoses. The excessive heat we are seeing now could have caused a marginal bend in a hose to close completely.

Take care, this heat will end soon and I will get off the forum and go back to enjoying the summer.
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Etennuly
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2011 - 04:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Od_c, You are absolutely correct about the breather system, a good thing to check.

I knew there were some differences since 1903 in the engine's design and the oil's functionality, but the basic idea of what they do is the same. The engine is basically a lump of metal parts arranged in such a way as to take in air and fuel, squeeze it, then ignite it, using the explosive force to turn an output shaft that turns a wad of metal shaped into a gearset that makes said force useful in turning a wheel that produces movement. Doing such activity creates a lot of friction which is reduced significantly with controlled, clean, pressurized lubrication.

A lot of filling in the gaps and fine tuning has occurred over the past 100+ years, but the basic machine is the same.
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Electraglider_1997
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2011 - 06:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Seat them thar rings with the Motoman breakin method. Maybe too late for seating his rings but pussin around whilst breaking in a bike is the downfall of many an engine. Why take thousands of miles to do what can be done in less than 100.

(Message edited by electraglider_1997 on July 22, 2011)
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Yamafreak
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2011 - 08:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Amsoil 60 all summer,and I am NUT'S !
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