| Author | Message | ||
     Rubysdaddy |
2006 XB12X 36K miles I just had my rear spark plug snap in half during removal. Seriously! I've changed plugs on this twice in the past with no issues. The remaining part of the plug is still in the threads of the head. Obviously I need to rotate the engine to be able to remove the head and have the remaining bit of plug removed. I have the service manual but haven't done this level of work on this bike. In fact, I haven't had any real issues at all. Any tips on order of disassembly or just encouragement will be appreciated. | ||
| Uly_man |
If you have just broken the insulator then just remove the rest of the plug. If you have sheared the hex drive off the plug, and left the threads of the plug in the head, then you will need a deeeeeeeeeeeeep money pocket. (Message edited by uly_man on July 17, 2011) | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
First off, I feel for you man! Stick with it and you can fix it. Maybe it would be a good idea for ULY owners to pre-soak the plugs with Liquid Wrench overnight before attempting to remove either plug. I've changed my rear plug once at 5000 miles and made the mistake of not using anti-seize when installing the new plug. After reading a few disaster stories, including Rubysdaddy's, I'm hoping to circumvent this situation by Liquid Wrenching before wrenching on those plugs when the time comes. That's assuming that the penetrating fluid will work. Any thoughts or experience with penetrating fluid and spark plug threads?? (Message edited by electraglider_1997 on July 17, 2011) | ||
| Hughlysses |
Before rotating the engine, you might try applying Liquid Wrench for a day or two and then try to get the remainder out with an EZ Out. This is one time when an EZ Out should work. If it doesn't, you haven't really lost anything. You'll have to rotate the engine, pull the rear head, and install a Time-sert. Craig- Using some penetrating oil like Liquid Wrench ahead of time (and giving the metal portion of the plug a few sharp raps with a metal object) can't hurt. BTW- Based on tests run by a magazine, the best penetrating fluid you can buy (actually make yourself) is 50% acetone and 50% automatic transmission fluid. Of the off-the-shelf stuff, Liquid Wrench works best and is the cheapest, but the 50/50 acetone/ATF mix costs about 1/2 as much and works twice as well! | ||
| Uly_man |
The alloy head of the Thunderstorm engine needs no special treatment, as regards plugs, than any other alloy head engine. What is needed is for people to understand what they are doing. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Hugh, I'll book mark this thread and rename it "Homemade Liquid Wrench". Thanks. | ||
| 7873jake |
Been busting nuts (and knuckles) on old bikes and basket cases for years. (1) 50/50 Acteone/ATF concoction is hard to beat. (2) PB Blaster is another common nut buster. Have had good results from their product. (3) Liquid Wrench-only rank it third because I don't use it as often as 1 or 2. | ||
| Rubysdaddy |
I'd like to try the EZ out method but don't think there is enough room to get a correct angle until the engine is rotated. I'm trying to post a picture but even after repeated downsizing I can't. I don't think this is an expensive fix as long as I'm doing the labor. At some point I'll need to figure out what gaskets, seals etc. I need to replace and whether it's a good idea to do both heads while they are accessible. | ||
| Hughlysses |
PB Blaster certainly smells better than Liquid Wrench. You can find reference to the article that tested the various products all over the net; here's one version:
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| Rubysdaddy |
FWIW - I do use anti-sieze on the plugs so it wasn't corrosion that caused this. I also install the rear plug via rubber hose and then by hand until snug, then use the plug socket. The mystery is how it's gone in and out without problems in the past and this time the removal went wrong. Again, the plug is "snapped" or "sheared" in the hole. I was able to remove the top of the spark plug and around 1/4" of threads. The rest just sits in there, mocking me... | ||
| Tootal |
I would try an 8 point socket on an easy out with a U joint drive on a ratchet. You might have gotten a defective plug and done nothing wrong yourself. I wouldn't rotate until all avenues are exhausted and then I would still use the easy out, after some soaking, if I did rotate. You should be able to fix this without pulling the head. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Karma. Must of done something bad recently and that is the payback karmawise.  | ||
| Etennuly |
My question on how to proceed would be; did you get the entire center electrode out with the upper part of the plug? Did the last bit of the glass insulator come out also? If they did an easy-out should be the best route before rotating the engine. | ||
| Motorbike |
I have been wrenching most of my life and have replaced tons of plugs on many different types of engines. The trick to using any penetrating oil is to try to crack loose the plug just slightly, if possible. ( I know this is not always possible ) Spray the penetrating oil down at the threads and then turn the plug back in slightly and spray it again. Try to rotate the plug back and forth while keeping the threads soaked. Eventually the oil will work it's way around the threads and the plug will easily come out. Also, spark plugs can occasionally get a little carbon build up around the lowest thread. This carbon can bind the threads up as you unscrew the plug. If this happens, turn the plug back in slightly, spray the threads with a strong carburetor cleaner and let it soak for a bit. This will soften the carbon and the plug will come right out, with little effort. Rubysdaddy, I'm hate to tell you but my advice is a day late. I wish you the best and I think you should be able to get the broken piece out without removing the head, if you carefully follow the advice already given by others in this thread. (Message edited by motorbike on July 17, 2011) | ||
| Rubysdaddy |
Etennuly - No, the center white portion is still there. I tried to lightly chisel some of it out so that an ez out may have some purchase, but it's tricky. I really appreciate the advice from all of you. I think I will still need to rotate, but might be able to leave the head in place. Questions: What is the best way or place to remove the fuel line? Which part of the TPS connection at the throttle body do I undo or remove to allow the engine to rotate? Thanks. | ||
| 7873jake |
Ever hear of or contemplated a flex-a-bit flex drive adapter? Seems like one could be adapted to hold or bite on an EZ-out bit or extractor of your choice. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Questions: What is the best way or place to remove the fuel line? Which part of the TPS connection at the throttle body do I undo or remove to allow the engine to rotate? - There's a quick-disconnect right at the throttle body. You only have to disconnect it at that end. - There's a plug on the TPS itself that you disconnect. In both cases there's a "tang" or something similar you have to lift or depress to unlatch the thing so you can disconnect it. | ||
| Etennuly |
I would be concerned about breaking that center glass bit and loosing it in the combustion chamber. Unless you can get the plug part out with that glass intact that could get ugly on start up. For that reason alone I am thinking pull the head. Before doing that though, could you maybe glue or epoxy the center electrode back into the hole in the glass insulator to try to wiggle it loose to pull it out. Maybe you could run a wire down the center using RTV or similar, let it dry overnight, then break the glass to have it stick to the RTV? I don't know, just throwing out ideas to save pulling the head. | ||
| Reepicheep |
If it were me, and things started going sideways (as they have for you), I'd take a deep breath and rotate the motor before doing anything else. Under an hour to do, and you then have one less stack of headaches you have to weave your way around. | ||
| Rubysdaddy |
Thanks Hugh - that makes sense I agree that rotating is safest - the more dinking around with the remains of the plug the more likely something will fall into the head. I might get it done tonight, although with our current temps and humidity, I could end up drinking G&T's instead. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Reepicheep has a good point. You'll have a whole lot better view of what you're trying to do with the engine rotated. After I went through the process during my recent engine disaster, I found that rotating the engine isn't nearly as difficult as I'd thought it would be. Probably the hardest part of it is removing/reinstalling the muffler (which requires a new front band BTW). | ||
| Motorbike |
I have a few questions, along with my own opinions, which may not be worth much! If you remove the head, you also have to replace the cylinder base gasket too, right? If not, you will probably be doing this job twice. Will the piston rings be OK, or does a new set need to be installed after pulling the cylinder? I have always re-ringed when a piston has been removed from it's cylinder. Can the head bolts be re-used on these engines? I know a lot of engines have torque-to-yield bolts, which are one use only. Anyone? | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Patrick, I didn't realize you were in the neck of the woods. The heat outside is impressive isn't it? Yikes.... Almost 100 right now, humidity is way up, dew point is around 75 if memory serves. The "feels like" temp is about 105-115 right now and headed upward. Motorbike. Yes, if you remove the clamping force from the base gasket it should be replaced. The rings are probably OK, I usually do a slight scuff on the walls to help the rings reseat. Some say to do this others say skip it. Depending on how many miles, I have also replaced the rings.. The head bolts are reused, they are really long nuts, they thread onto the cylinder studs that are screwed into the crank case. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Do you have a tig welder if you do you can use low power and heat up the plug base and it will break up the corrosion around the plug threads since its in inert gas it wont consume the plug or head. You can get a lot of heat directly where you need it.Works well on brake rotor and pulley bolts that get corroded in due to disimilar metals. | ||
| Rubysdaddy |
I decided to remove the head and will bring it to a machinist this week to remove the broken plug and have him install a time sert. I imagine American Sportbike is the best place to order gaskets. Apart from the usual: base, head, upper and lower rocker covers, pushrod covers, exhaust gaskets intake seals, and rings, is there anything else I should replace while I can get to it? | ||
| Hughlysses |
If heat is an issue for you, order some Thermotec insulation from American Sport Bike. Line the inside of the frame (especially the right side and rear) while you have the engine rotated out of the way. | ||
| Rubysdaddy |
Heat? An issue in Minnesota?  | ||
| Hughlysses |
Heat? An issue in Minnesota? Well, Brad posted above that it'd been almost 100 deg. F there, so I thought that might be on your mind this week. | ||
| Rr_eater |
I would also HIGHLY recommend the Thermotec on the frame if you have the motor out. Clean everything with alcohol (not the kind you drink), trim it to fit real snug. Be careful, once its set in place, thats it, so take your time. Hugh That Thermotec from American Sport Bike is amazing stuff isnt it? I love the fact that Al talked me into doing it (did not have to talk very hard!!) while we had the engine rotated out on what was SUPPOSED to be a day trip to his shop when my Fan failed and spark plug wires wore through, all in about 100 miles of each other. If ANYONE wants to complain about driving a Uly in the summer, try it, in SoCal traffic, on the freeway, WITH NO FAN!! Toasty goes without saying! THANK GOD for having new Amsoil in the case for that trip!! After the T-tec and everything else figured out and back to normal, never a hiccup of skipspark, and the right side frame rail was WAY cooler, just make sure to put some on the lower side of the box frame as well, facing the exhaust pipe itself. Made a huge difference. Bruce Did not mean to hitch hike the thread!! (Message edited by rr_eater on July 26, 2011) | ||
| Ratbuell |
hm. I haven't had an issue yet. I get the engine HOT by...well....riding it first. THEN pull the plugs. I also use anti-seize on install. That said...you may well have a defective plug, nothing wrong on your part at all. And as for penetrants...I swear by BG's "In-Force". Awesome stuff. | ||
| Treadmarks |
Big +1 for the anti-seize!  (Message edited by treadmarks on August 03, 2011) |
