| Author | Message | ||
     Timbscg |
Hey there. A question for the Board about my ’08 XB12X with ~6,500 miles... The steering seems to operate more freely than it should. I’ve jiggled it around and the steering head bearing does not appear to be loose in the socket, per se. But, the handlebars turn very easily and it feels like the steering head bearing should be snugged up to create more resistance. This dynamic has always been present to some degree on this bike, but it appears to be getting worse. The symptoms: When rolling to a stop, I have to steer the bike actively to a complete stop to prevent it from swinging or wandering, left or right. When traveling at higher road speeds (60+ mph), the wind actually seems to push the bike and steering around a bit. The steering does NOT wobble; so I do not have a safety concern. But, the effect creates a mild feeling of instability. When cornering, the bike can also tend to “turn in”, as it does at very slow speeds as well. The bike has been lowered by about 1”, with a different rear shock and mods to the front forks. This was done by a race suspension professional. The balance is good and the suspension seems to have been adjusted properly; certainly rides well in this regard. The steering issue seems to have existed both before and after the lowering. I realize the steep rake and wide handlebars on the Uly could be a factor in creating this dynamic. But, this “free” steering effect seems to be excessive. I also have an ’07 12S, and the effect I’m describing is in no way present on that bike. I’m wondering if anyone has experienced a similar dynamic with steering on the Uly? Any ideas on the cause or a possible solution? Can the steering head bearing on this bike be tightened to be more snug, like up to or beyond the upper torque spec? Is there a lubricant that would create slightly more resistance? Should I consider replacing the neck bearing? Appreciate your comments, Tim | ||
| Ulynut |
Re=torque the steering head according to the service manual. Check tire pressures front and rear. Check tire condition front and rear. A squared off rear tire can make it kind of "flop down" into a turn. | ||
| Nvr2old |
I also experience the "turn in", especially cornering at low speeds. I just thought that was a Uly thing. | ||
| Jhallgren |
Timbscg Keep an eye on it. I had the same symptoms on my 09 Uly. I retorqued mine several times. Ended having them replaced under warranty. I only had 7500 when they were replaced. After the retorque it would behave normally for about 300 miles and then need a retorque. Not saying its that, but keep an eye on it after you retorque them. After they were replaced, I have not had the issue since. | ||
| Griffmeister |
Yeah, like Ulynut says, follow the manual. With the clutch cable disconnected and starting from full right, it should take a 1 to 7 lb pull at the outside of the axle to turn the forks. Surprised you haven't heard the clicking noise on hard braking. | ||
| Kevinaye |
The clicking noise on hard braking is possibly a loose/worn head set? | ||
| Jhallgren |
Yup | ||
| Sharkguy |
A while back I saw a tapered set for sale for the Uly. Anyone tried a set up like that? | ||
| Tootal |
A tapered bearing set would require a center shim or tube. Was that included? Would be a stronger way to go. I haven't seen this but like the idea! | ||
| Timbscg |
Thanks for the feedback. I have fairly new tires (Pirelli Angels) and the pressures are at spec. I'll have it retorqued. It's interesting that others have had the same issue and Jh actually had the neck bearing replaced. I may end up doing the same. I ran into a Buell buddy at a gas station today and was talking to him...Reminded me that the bike should almost steer itself on a straight road at speed, which really isn't the case. Thanks all. Definitely have action(s) to take! | ||
| Sharkguy |
Mine has a bit of a wandering feeling especially going over road crowns. I also have the pirelli angels. I think I'll put in a new set of head bearings when I change the tires. I have a set of pilot road 2s to put on next. | ||
| Ourdee |
I adjusted the head bearings this spring and get a small click under very heavy braking (near endo force). Have new bearings in the tail bag. Hoping to make it to the first snow. Handling is fine. | ||
| Etennuly |
My '06 felt incredibly loose at about 8,000 miles. I re-torqued them by the service manual method and it has not needed further adjustment since. It is now at 55,500 miles. | ||
| Uly_dude |
Hey when you had your forks modified by the performance shop, you kept the same fork tubes, right? Reason I ask, is the 08 had the new triple clamps for better steering sweep, but this required the forks to change and are different from the 06 and 07s. If you look at your front axle, you should see that the axle is behind the fork tubes, not right under them. If this wasn't correct, you would get the kind of issues you're describing. | ||
| Tootal |
Sorry Uly dude, I have 08 trees and 06 forks and there is no handling issue at all. If anything it's more stable at speed. I basically chopped my ride!  | ||
| Ratbuell |
Short rake. Long, "chopper" rakes are stable in a straight line and SUCK in the turns. Short rakes handle awesome and change direction easily, but can be "touchy" in a straight line. Do you deathgrip? Relax your grip on the bars. Is your suspension (mainly your sag) set properly? Nose-down/tail-up will increase the twitchy feeling. Set everything to factory maintenance specs FIRST, then evaluate. Don't just throw parts at it until you take the time to properly ADJUST what you already have. | ||
| Timbscg |
Continuing good comments here. Much appreciated! Working backwards... Definitely good questions about the suspension. We had an early hypothesis about the sag. It's right on the edge. The dealer indicated that the suspension guys could have modified w/ shorter stops to provide a bit more flexibility. But, the suspension is very close to spec and my impression is that the sag is not a driving force in my issue. Still a good question that I should go back and have examined again. Death grip - Great point! I feared this was an issue. Over the past couple of weeks, I've been trying to really "ease off". Let the bike prove to me that it wants to wander. It does. But at the same time, over-focusing on it doesn't really help. You're right. '08 Trees, '06 Forks - VERY interesting. I was wondering about that. You actually got better stability by doing that? Per the other comment, yes...the forks are right. But, I wonder if Tootal is onto something. Pirelli Angels... They are terrific tires, but ya gotta wonder about them. Finally, the key message I'm taking is to start by having the neck bearing re-torqued (again). I'm hoping I can find a dealer or mechanic who will follow my instructions to "torque it good". And, we'll see if that does the trick. Encouraging to hear the case of having it done for a "last time" at 8,000 miles...on the way to 55K! Thanks! | ||
| Ratbuell |
Another factor in head bearing retorque is "how many wheelies"? Bouncing down from a good one doesn't help with neck adjustments...unless you're like Vern and you have those bearings hammered just about THROUGH the neck from all those lofty ones!  | ||
| Etennuly |
 WHAT?? I don't do no stinkin' wheelies! Mark(Wolfie) is the one doing wheelies!Joe I don't know where you get your information.....I don't do no wheelies.....I'm too old.....too fat.....and skeert like a bunny rabbit!  | ||
| Uly_dude |
That's an interesting observation Tootal. I was conteplating doing the same to my bike(buying 08 clamps) and then installing a completely different set of forks from a "normal" motorcycle so I could fit a different front wheel with normal disc brakes so as to be able to put an 18 or 19 inch tire on with an more off-road tread. But when I looked into buying the clamps, I was told about the off-set axle and the detrimental results, thus I gave up on that idea. But now with your information, the wheels in my head are turnin again! Anyone else have an opinion on not-correct forks in the 08 clamps? | ||
| Tootal |
I just did it to help it turn more, I hated the stock trees and turning radius, especially off road. Treadmarks was the first to do it that I know. He had no problems so I did it. You do gain a little more room but I don't think you'll be able to go up a wheel size. | ||
| Mbest |
Hi Guys, I did it backwards on my '08 uly. The stock bike has a very generous 4.8" of trail on both the early and late ones. Swapping the '08 and later clamps onto the earlier '07 and older 43mm forks will reduce the trail about .8" to a sportier 4.0" On my '08 uly, I swapped the strait axel clamps off the end of the 47mm 1125 forks onto my 47mm uly forks to accomplish the same thing as putting the '08 triple clamps on an earlier bike with the 43mm forks with their factory strait axel clamps. I could have just used the '07 or earlier forks on mine to do the same thing, but I didn't want to give up the 47mm tubes. It's been one of the best mods so far on my bike for handling and I'd never go back. my $.02 mike | ||
| Uly_dude |
Now I'm really confused! Sorry Mbest, I read your post a couple times and still not sure what I read. Sounds like you took some 1125 forks and put them on your 08 Uly? That sounds cool. Myself, I'm wondering if anyone else has put the 08 clamps on their 06/07 Uly, keeping the original forks, and have anything good or bad to say about it(Tootal duely noted). I'm considering doing this mod somewhere down the road(figurtively). Once I have the clamps I plan to stay with, I'll then shop around for a proper set of forks-for-normal-front-wheels, as a separate side project. | ||
| Redhat |
Here is a thread about that. I believe it worked without problem and if needed you can still reduce rear preload | ||
| Eulysses |
I would love a taller front wheel...tall as possible. | ||
| Motorbike |
Eulysses, like this?  | ||
| Mbest |
Hey Uly-dude, I took the aluminum axel clamps off the bottom of some 1125 forks and put them on my Uly fork sliders, both 47mm. An overview: Both the early and the late Uly's have the exact same steering geometry's of 23.5 rake and 4.8" of trail. To increase the steering lock to lock on the '08 and newer models (except the XT model) the factory offset the forks forward in the triple clamps about 20mm to allow more steering sweep before the fork tubes would hit the frame/fuel tank. To keep the steering's geometry the same as before, they offset the axels back (rearward) the same 20mm that the forks were moved forward. This puts the wheel right back where it used to be. That allows for more lock to lock and cancels out any other geometry changes from the newer triple clamps. This was done on the "X" model only and not on the later "XT" ones as it was only really needed for the added "dirt" riding aspect of the "X" model. Changing only the triples or the forks or lower slider's axel clamp offsets will change the trail on the bike. 4.8" is a little on the lazy side, but the bike does have a shorter wheelbase so it can tolerate a little more trail before the steering gets too heavy. 4.0" is not too short for this bike and lightens up the steering a ton, especially mid turn with throttle changes it holds a line much better. Your earlier bike already has zero offset axel clamps so adding the '08 XB12X triple clamps will "free up" your steering feel a surprising amount by reducing the trail about .8" to about 4". Running too little trail on a bike can lead to twitchy handling at higher speeds for sure, but 4" is still on the high side for modern bikes and if you keep the speeds under 140 mph (haha) or so you'll be fine, otherwise you might start to get into needing a steering damper like the sportbike guys with 3" of trail. Not a worry for us. As an added bonus for you, most all of the forks that you might swap onto the bike to have a conventional brake setup already come with zero offset axel clamps on the sliders, so your geometry wont change if you go that route. Any of that help? mike | ||
| Uly_dude |
Yep, crystal clear now. Basically, it's your opinion that the 08 clamps with the 06 forks should work fine and if anything make the bike less twitchy. I'm all for that. The person I emailed with said this setup could make the bike less stable, so I backed off the idea. But now I'm hearing differently. Thanks. However, how does the 43mm 06 fork fit into the 47mm 08 clamp? I'll have to read more of that thread posted back in 2007. Or just run with my idea of finding a set of 47mm forks off of a "normal front wheel" bike. | ||
| Etennuly |
I swapped a set of the '08 trees into an '06, retaining the stock forks. No problem at all. The rake angle change was minimal, the biggest difference being the steering sweep left to right, which is why we did it. You will need a steering parking lock pin that is longer to make that work. | ||
| Tootal |
I have one left if somebody needs it. Won't be able to send it for 3 weeks though. | ||
| Mbest |
Ulydude, The aluminum fork upper tubes (outers) are the same diameter on both early and late so you can go either way. 2008 triples and matching forks for no handling or geometry changes except for an increase in steering lock and the extra potential strength of the 47mm lower tubes. Or swap only the newer triples onto your 43mm forks and get both the better sweep and a more nimble feel for handling. Etnnuly is correct that you will need to get the longer steering lock pin if you want to retain use of the lock. yup... | ||
| Uly_dude |
Hey Tootal, I'll take your extra pin from you. I think I am going to do this mod this winter now that I've got this new information. I'll PM you. Thanks. |
