| Author | Message | ||
     Fltwistygirl |
Rode the XT to Orlando today. My problem free baby is no longer that. 25 minutes into my ride home, just as I was getting into the thick 35 mph stop n go crap in the 97 degree heat, it misses and check engine light comes on. Rode one mile, stopping twice for lights, light went off. Parked it, no fan on. Gave us both a chance to cool off, went into c-store got gatorades and cashews. Pounded a gatorade, called my fellow trailer possessing coach to put her on alert just in case it died. Rode the next 8 miles in 45 mph traffic, then 55 mph. At the 8 mile point light flashed on, then off, then on and stayed on. At the 13 mile point pulled over, shut down, fan went on, then cycled off. Called my coach friend to update her that I was moving along. Start it up, light comes on and stays on. At stoplight, starts missing so I pull in to other c-store, shut down, fan on again. Drank more gatorade, rode 4 more miles. Light on solid always now unless shut down. Stoplight, starts running rough, pull over into car dealer, shut it down. Wait, start it up. Hit every freaking redlight (about 10) between there and home over 9 or so miles. Pull into driveway, shut it down, it backfires, smells fuelly. Done. Running to target for playdoh next, and digging out shop manual. Symptoms a little dif than X's ECM woes, think it sounds like it could be the seat rubbing on the XT as well? One Uly is at the dealer, the other will prolly be joining it. I'm taking the beemer tomorrow, Grateful to have multiple bikes but running out of options and patience. Signed, the ray of sunshine previously known as twisty, now Florida cranky girl. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Hate to ask, but how's the oil level? Remember, it's your coolant on these bikes. If you're low, you're low on "coolant" and the bike will get hot. Was it pinging any before the light? | ||
| Griffmeister |
If the light came on then I'd check for stored code(s) first before trying to guess what happened. Could save a lot of effort if you have something specific to look for. | ||
| Panhead_dan |
Checking the oil is easier and I suspect it as well. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Hey I am all for the quick solution, even if it means I'm the dork for not figuring it out myself. I did check the oil level at the third gas station, but it was pretty hot and it mostly splattered so I did not get a good read then. I re-checked a bit ago after running it long enough to get the fan to run, and yes, the oil was a little below the XXX's. Obviously, adding a little oil is step 1. I realize these engines burn a little, and honestly I've not checked it since before our trip, several hundred miles ago. Dumb question: do they burn more oil when weather is hot? I've been pre-occupied with the tires as they are being replaced this week. Much needed. Hubby will get to check the codes manana and can play around with it to see if he can replicate the symptoms. Wish us luck! Don't wanna change my handle to FLcrankygirl. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Oh and thanks again for your input, everyone. Bear with me, I'm still a little shell shocked for last weeks experience with the X. We'll keep you posted. | ||
| Jphish |
Hey Fltwistygirl - I think you had a heat rebellion problem. (And where the hell is it 97* right now??!! - we just had our FIRST day over 70* this year) I only had it happen once in 28K mi. - it was 100* in stop / go traffic - CEL comes on - runs like crap (maybe even skip spark mode) fuelly smelling, irratic behavior - popping & bucking - get out of town & up to speed - cools down to 85* - I pull in clutch (5th gear @ 50 mph) and hit kill switch - turn back to run position, slowly let out clutch, and fires back up. CEL now off and never had it happen again. Ulys dont like hot weather & slow speed. OIL: XX is @ the 2.5 qt capacity & plenty on dip stick - any more and all ya do is end up with an 'oil bath air filter' (any of you old farts remember those??) And keep in mind the diff between very bottom of dipstick & 2X is about 3 oz. Its more of a problem being a few oz over, than a few under. I know, I know, I'm no longer a Uly owner and should go play on the Tiger site...but I cant help it...drank the coolaid 4 years ago. j | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
"where the hell is it 97* right now??!! Mid-Flori-duh, that is where. It was 104 on Sat at 11:30 a.m. Actually seemed hotter yesterday though with no cloud coverage. Students scores on the riding evals SUCKED for this weekends class, and I am blaming the heat. It is in a weird weather pattern where it does not cool off much, even at night and we have not gotten into the daily rain pattern so the heat is just awful. The Buells and I all love the cooler summer time temps in MN. Never had any heat related issues aside from the dreaded ULY leg and the fix for that was my riding pants. XT is in hubby's hands today, hope he figures something out. Will let ya know. | ||
| Etennuly |
Sounds to me like it just got too hot. I know Florida well and know that in traffic you cannot get away from it. I would bet if you get it out into some open air it will run fine unless there is a problem with the fan or the ECM not telling the fan to come on. It seems to me the fan should have been on a lot in those conditions. I have not seen any heat issues with my '06 since wiring the fan to a switch where I command it to be on all of the time when the temps are above 70F. | ||
| Jphish |
Hmmm - sounds like Etennuly's fan mod might be a good suggestion for all you hot weather Uly owners. Or... you could move back to Minn. I like plan B | ||
| Ourdee |
Hey Vern, Do you have a link to a write up on the fan on mod? | ||
| Etennuly |
I did a while back. It is a simple set up. I cut the ground lead to the fan, spliced a wire from there to a switch on the bars and back. I let it warm up about five minutes before riding, depending on the temperature. After I ride a couple of miles I turn it on and leave it on if it is above 70F. When the temps are 50F to 70F I will sometimes turn it on and off, below 50F I don't turn it on at all. I just turn it off when I park the bike and shut it down. Jphish, you seem too happy.  Has that got something to do with that Tiger? | ||
| Jphish |
Hey Etenn' - your fan switch idea is patently brilliant in it's simplicity !! No - Actually I'm experiencing withdrawl anxiety, from what my wife refers to as an "unnatural attachment" to the Uly. I keep getting reports from new owner (Casey) on how much he loves it - I of course bombard him several times / day with care tips...I think he's now changed his email address. No new Tiger yet - maybe this week - but still got the wifes old 'Girlie' to get me around. She sold her ST1300 last month and 'appropreated' my old tiger - now hers - something about community property...damn attorneys. (OOPs - did I say that? - sorry honey) I never had any 'issues' selling a bike...until the Uly. I DO miss her...the Uly I mean. I'm keeping my membership in BB&D - down the road ya never know. I could have one again. Toodles, j | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Quality time bonding with the beemer today, it was a fun ride, but so much different than the Buells. Basic transportation, just got me there and back. Had a Russian guy in my class who had a zillion questions about it, I'm really not the person to answer them. That person was busy pulling error codes on the XT. Ooooh, I do like the suggestion of moving back to MN, for maybe 7 months a year. I'd rather contend with the heat, as much as I detest it some days, than be without my bikes for months at a time. And, the diagnosis we've all been waiting for...."Idle Air Controller". That is what the code is for. Which brings me to my next questions (sorry, have not done a search, my butt got kicked teaching in the heat again and I am wooped): Common problem? Dealership only fix or if we got the part in the mean time could we do it ourselves? Gotta get at least one of the Ulys running toot sweet. Tick tock, time is money and it sucks that they are under warranty and just sitting there when we bought them to pile on the miles (and smiles). | ||
| Froggy |
IAC is common on the early 08's, but not unheard of on later bikes. Easy fix, just take off the entire airbox and swap the IAC assembly, $170. Your profile says you got two 09's, I'd swap the IACs and see if the problems move to the other bike, just as confirmation. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Sounds like a good idea, Froggy, and that is correct, two 09s, one X, one XT. Thank you. I was thinking about pulling the ECM from the XT and putting in the X, using same logic. Let me ask you this: the x is in custody of the dealer. Are they gonna look at us cross eyed if we zip over there on Wednesday, and pull the IAC out of the X, and slap it in the XT? If the one in the XT has gone to crap, is it safe to ride or is it time for the XT to be a sick little trailer queen just like her sibling the X was last week? Also, do you have p/n's for the ECM and for the IAC? Are they in the service manual? Is there anyone on here who can check to see if they are readily available or on back order? ENOUGH QUESTIONS??????? sorry...but thanks all for your patience and help. We love our Uly's & want them both to be feeling better. B. | ||
| Froggy |
Since they are still under warranty I would just let the dealer deal with it. I do have part numbers, but the ECM is shipped blank so it won't do you any good without the dealer reflashing it anyway. You can ride it with the broken IAC, just be aware that will act funny, and probably not idle at all. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Yeah it was not happy at all at intersections. I have no problem letting the dealer deal with these issues, as long as we have resolution by the first week in June. These guys have got to understand my level of urgency, I depend on two wheel transportation for my job. In June, I throw one of the Buells on the trailer and head north to teach. I have a 200 mile vast stretch of road between the northern and central part of MN where I will be using one of these bikes as my primary commuter. Hoping to do a little riding for fun as well. One of them has got to be in running order. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I wonder if the IAC is getting gummed up on some of these bikes? If you don't have the breather mod done to your bike, oily, nasty crankcase vapors go through the IAC when your engine's idling. It sure seems like this would eventually cause the thing to stick. I know (for instance) on older Volvos (I've got a 93 945T with 200k+ miles on it), every so often you need to remove the IAC (which is actually a separate unit in a hose that by-passes the throttle body), shoot the inside with carburetor cleaner or a similar solvent, slosh it around, and dump it out. Otherwise, the mechanism gums up and it won't operate properly. It would certainly be worth trying something similar on a Buell before you dump ~$160 on a new one. | ||
| Jphish |
Hughlysses - good point. Also wonder if excessive heat contributes to, or exacerbates the tendency for IAC malfunction ? | ||
| Leoallafila |
Just to add to the things that could cause such a behaviour, for future reference (not saying it's the case this time basically): check the connector to the rear cylinder temperature sensor, it is that gray wire coming out of the vent on top of the rear cylinder, and runs into a fast-on connector just behind the throttle body. I did not put mine back in the whole way after rearranging some of the wiring to keep it from rubbing against stuff, and after it disconnected I got: - steady engine light on - rough idle and power delivery (ecm goes into "limp mode" when it's missing one of the parameters for correct fuel amount) - fan would NOT come on at all. | ||
| Uly_man |
"Rode the XT to Orlando today. My problem free baby is no longer that. 25 minutes into my ride home, just as I was getting into the thick 35 mph stop n go crap in the 97 degree heat, it misses and check engine light comes on. Rode one mile, stopping twice for lights, light went off. Parked it, no fan on." That sounds like "spark skip" (due to heat to protect the engine) but the fan should have been running while you were moving and at stopped as well. So thats not right. A ambient temp of 97F is very high for these engines to deal with. Mine is ok at 85F in traffic but any more than 90F and it does not like it much. The second stage of cooling with this engine is the oil cooler. Make sure it is working right. If you are going to use the bike in these sort of temps you may need a higher grade oil to deal with it. Oils are rated for things like this. Even at 97F these engines are ok if your moving IE air going over the engine. The main problem, it can/does happen to some extent on many bikes, is in traffic but because of the position of the XB engine in the frame it is much more of a problem. These engines give the oil a hard time anyway so change it more in high temps. A good air flow through the engine helps a lot IE free flowing can and opening up the airbox. The later bikes are said to have a bigger oil cooler matrix but an even bigger one might help. It would be my first "port of call" in those temps if needed. A big R/H air scoop works as well. I have had many cars/bikes over 30 years and never felt the need to have a recovery deal to cover breakdowns and as much as I love the bike I MUST have it, used it twice now, with the ULY. That was just with local commuting as well. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Yay, both bikes seem to be well! Nothing done to XT besides us adding a little oil. No stop n go traffic in heat yet though. Will clean out IAC soon. Seminole still seems to be big fans of Erik and the Buell line. We are very appreciative of the sense of urgency they had with our bikes. Refreshing. | ||
| Etennuly |
IAC could certainly suffer in hot weather as high temperatures will vaporize more oil into the air box where the IAC is located. I would think a little shot of carb cleaner with a blast of compressed air would clean it like Hugh pointed out. The '06's had a problem in that if the breather hoses stuck too high into the air box base they would actually pull oil into the air box rather than let it run back down the hoses. I'm wondering if you are in with the synthetic oil believers that 20W50 is good for all year. The service manual calls for straight 60W in that kind of hot weather. I try to follow the book on oil usage. My former City-X would make two quarts of 20W50 vaporize in 80F + temps in less than 500 miles. The 60W oil stayed in the engine through a complete oil change period and never had heat problems. The first time my Uly had it's over heat problem was the first time I switched to synthetic 20W50 in summer heat. I went back to dino per the book. Hugh, what oil are you running in your new engine? | ||
| Blasterd |
another former Cityx-er here and in the summer here in FL mine would make a little disappear also, not 2 quarts worth but maybe 1/2 here and there. My Uly hasn't used a drop of oil since I bought her new. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Vern- You make an interesting point. We are running Amsoil 20W50 year round in the Buells. We never know when temps in the 80's + will hit, 20/50 has to this point been a good all around oil, but it was not this balmy this early in hot as snot FL last year in Apr/May. Also, I spent more time in MN for the summer last year than I will this year. The XT seemed much happier up north with the cooler MN summertime temps than when it heated up there or when we got back here. All my v-twins thrive in in the cooler temps, they are a sheer delight to ride in the cooler weather. I guess I did not make the hot temp/more oil burning connection, but it makes sense and in the warmer weather, especially in traffic, we need to stay on top of the oil levels. Trip to auto parts store for carb cleaner and discussion with the man about oil is on agenda for tomorrow. Thanks! B. | ||
| Aussiexbox |
I had exactly the same fault last year on the X,it was the fan that had a short in it and as soon as I replaced it with my spare problem solved,it used to blow the fan fuse when the 2nd stage of the fan was running,it got so bad one run that I left the fuse blown,and ended up doing the main ignition fuse and loosing all power. My trouble started when the rear cylinder developed a rocker cover oil leak and sucked all the oil into the fan. | ||
| Etennuly |
BeLinda, chances are the only place you will find straight 60W is at a HD dealer. I have checked many auto parts stores and called my local oil distributors....."not available due to small demand" was the most common answer. So the $11.00 per quart HD stuff is where I had to go. Interestingly in my Uly I run Rotella non syn 15W40 for all but mid summer's temps with no problems. That is usually when I spring for the 60W. Of course oil is the defacto 'kind and use' argument of all time. But I found that my engine and those of some other Uly's are quieter at idle. One in particular sounded like a bag of marbles fell into a blender with synthetic oil. We changed his out to dino oil by the SM schedule and it was much quieter and a little smoother running. My personal semi-scientific, non-engineering degree studies have me also believing that synthetic oils tolerate high temperatures better, but as a part of the cooling procedure, dino oils with their larger molecules carry heat off more efficiently. I also believe that dino oils protect against metallic collisions better due to the molecular size and structure. And inside these 90 degree V Twins.....there are a lot of parts that work by metallic collision. To paraphrase Hugh, I think some of what he called "bearing skip" or something to that affect. But then this is all conjecture by a bodyman/painter/business owner reaching outside his field of factual study....ie. just my $.02. | ||
| Uly_man |
Look at it this way. The XB engine heads, the hot part, are stuffed in the frame and capped by the airbox cover. This makes cooling them on the hard side if your stationary. So you then have an oil cooler and a 2 stage fan if needed. What happens though is that the higher the ambient air temp the slower the transfer rate of heat from the bike to the outside air. The reason that a free flowing can works is because it moves those very hot gases away from the heads quicker than the OEM can. I would say that if you ride/live in parts that are very hot do all you can to keep the motor cool. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Funny you mention that... I had to run to my local dealer last evening (Powder Keg HD, formerly Aces and Eights). They had been epically bad in every previous transaction I tried to do with them... nice enough folks, but they couldn't fine their @&& with both hands in terms of execution. But I was stuck, and needed a parts book, so I gritted my teeth and tried again. The new guy at the parts counter was somebody who worked at a few different dealers, ran his own independent shop for a while, and was on the phone with a guy when I walked up saying "we can order footpegs for your Ulysses, but it sounds like you are looking for a different fit, so go out to americansportbike first and see if they have something closer to what you want, if not I'll be happy to order the stock pegs for you." My jaw dropped. The rest of the experience was the same... he was outstanding. It's funny, now that the company is shut down, the dealers are finally getting it right. Probably because the talent pool is SOOOO good for the surviving dealers... lots of outstanding people looking for work. And the dealers themselves have to work for a living now... It was the first hopeful sign Ive seen that HD might be able to recover in the last two years... (sorry for the thread hijack...) | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
OMG, this is so funny I've got to share...Greg was ordering dinner online and asked for extra "buel" cheese (shoulda been blue cheese), sorry for the diversion, he had just read the Erik Buell Racing Cycle world article...where was his mind? Back on topic, the bikes ran great today. 120 miles roundtrip in 97 degree heat. No probs. What a relief. Better CS seems to be happening everywhere in HD land. We inherited a former Buell counter guy at our local HD dealer. Loves our Ulys, also a pleasure to deal with. Everyone we dealt with at Seminole was awesome this past time. Macon was great also. Maybe the tide is turning. And Vern, we can get a 60 W oil through Amsoil. Picked up a case for our schools dealership yesterday, hoping to see some Erik Buell Racing swag there, no dice mr. mice. Greg is not totally convinced that is the way to go yet, we will check oil in a moment, see if we burned any today. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I don't buy the free-flow exhaust theory, sorry. I bet if you put a wind meter at the outlet of a stock muffler, and an aftermarket one, you'd have the same "windspeed". The difference is BACKPRESSURE. Also...a freeflow exhaust with no other updates to the engine will result in a HOTTER running engine. It will run lean. You'll be out of balance for the air/fuel mix. I was in DC stop and go all day today in 90* weather. Humid, crappy DC weather. '06 Uly, Erik Buell Racing ECM dated 4/2010, K&N filter, no other changes. Sure...my fan ran the whole damn time...but the bike ran like a CHAMP. I did get some pinging every now and then when I'd whack the throttle to get around a left-lane squatter who couldn't read "SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT" and didn't understand what a flash-to-pass is...but all that told me was "downshift, idiot"  | ||
| Uly_man |
Ratbuell - I don't buy the free-flow exhaust theory, sorry. No need to be sorry. I passed a comment which was just my opinion and you did the same. You did it with respect and I thank you for it. BW is a very cool Buell site. A real enthusiasts forum unlike some. (Message edited by uly_man on May 27, 2011) |
