| Author | Message | ||
     Hughlysses |
Roland- PM sent with guy's info. | ||
| Rdkingryder |
Thanks. | ||
| Hughlysses |
A little more progress to report today. Last night, I ordered 4 quarts of Amsoil 20W-50 (engine and tranny) fulfilling my pledge to switch brands. Today, Santa came early! Picked up at the local truck terminal:  Crate unloaded at my house (my wife and I carefully slid it down two metal ramps):  Indiana Jones carefully opens the crate containing the holy relic:  74 cubic inches of V-twin goodness!:  The ebayer did an outstanding job of crating this thing; I was impressed. Hopefully I can finish uncrating it tomorrow and study this wiring harness a little closer. The mechanical install should be a piece of cake, but I think I'll hold off until I settle the wiring issue because it'll be way easier to swap the wiring harness with the engine out of the bike. | ||
| Motorcyclemike |
Merry Christmas!!!! | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
The fun continues. | ||
| Sayitaintso |
If the crating job is any indication of the condition of the motor, you're good to go. | ||
| Hughlysses |
If the crating job is any indication of the condition of the motor, you're good to go. My thoughts exactly! I'm still studying electrical schematics when I have time. A complicating factor is that the 07 and 09 schematic formats are VERY different so you can't just lay them side by side and say "oh, here's where things get different". Components are laid out differently on the pages, the 09 is in color but the 07 is black & white, etc. I can't quite get my brain around the actual wiring apparently being so different. I mean, 98% of the components on the 07 and 09 are identical. The only new component on the 09 to be controlled by the ECM is the Idle Air Valve (4 wires), there are the same fuses and relays in fusebox but somehow there are 72 wires coming out of the ECM versus 25. I believe Froggy has posted previously that the 08-up ECM controls a lot of things on the bike that the ECM did not control on the previous generation. Before I'd seen the complexity of the thing, my initial thought was that I'd be able to cut the "engine control" section from the 09R harness and splice it into the 07 Uly harness, but that looks like it'd be a humongous job. Other differences I've noted are (apparently) a different plug with a different pin-out for the fuel pump (that will have to be considered even if I buy a new 09 Uly harness), and no diode in the fuse box on the 09. | ||
| Sayitaintso |
It sounds like this is going to be a labor intensive job..... follow each of the wires in the plans to determine what each wire controls for both the '07 and '09. Then make a "crosswalk" on paper to figure out what from the '09 harness goes where on the '07 bike. Then hope there aren't too many error codes. If that will even work (I'm more or less just speculating on how to attack it). yuck. | ||
| Garrcano |
IIRC in the past the wire harness would be manufactured using a big wood panel with hooks. How I would do it: 1. Take out the complete '07 harness. 2. Extend it on the wood panel and draw its silhouette, putting tags on the positions for the "old" connectors. 3. Take a look for the new or modified connectors and looms on the '09 engine and transfer them to the drawing. 4. Extend the 12R harness on the panel and fix it with some type of hooks or bended nails (so you can handle with it). 5. Unwrap the tape on the parts which you need to modify. 6. Relocate the wires and connectors for the '09 Uly setup. 7. If I have to enlarge or shorten a wire, I do it if possible at the connector, so the errors are located in the future. I normally open the external part of the crimped connector, cut the wire so tight as possible at the fixing point and solder it with the new wire. 8. Wrap again the "new" loom. I hope it helps you. Thank you for all the information you are exposing. P.D. Excuse my bad english. | ||
| Motorbike |
Garrcano, your English is fine! I agree with your method to adapt the harness. This will take a little time but will actually make the whole job easier and less prone to failure down the road. It is one of them jobs that, if not done right, you might as well not do it at all. Pay attention to detail. One other thing to consider is the solder joint when splicing wires. Never have a solder splice where a wire has to flex or vibrate. It will crack due to stiffening of the wire after soldering. Also do not over-solder. A proper solder joint takes very little solder. Too much solder will tend to flow along the length of the wire, again stiffening the wire and making it likely to break. To cover the soldered connection, use shrink tubing wherever possible as it is far superior to electricians tape. I used to work at an automotive electrical repair shop and you would just not believe some of the cobbled up repair jobs I have seen come into the shop! | ||
| Hughlysses |
Garrcano- Thanks very much for the excellent suggestion. That would be a great way to go about it. Motorbike- thanks for the tips on soldering. I never thought about that but it makes a lot of sense. It's worth a few hours of labor to me to avoid spending another ~$370 for a new wiring harness (assuming I can even get one) so I'm going to at least try it. I guess the only reason to NOT try to modify the 09 12R harness is that if I give up, I've ruined something that I might otherwise have been able to sell, though I doubt there is much market for it. Same for my existing 07 X wiring harness. I did work through an approximation of the number of wires that would have to be lengthened, shortened, or left alone to modify the 09 R harness: There are approximately 77 conductors in the harness not counting grounds. Of these 44 would apparently have to be lengthened to relocate the ECM, fuse block, and relay block to the rear of the bike. 13 conductors, which go from the ECM/fuse block/relay block to the engine, could be left alone. 20 conductors at the rear of the bike would need to be shortened. These could be left alone and the excess wire could be "hidden" someplace. So, worst case, 64 wires to be spliced. That sounds like a lot, but that's not far from the amount involved in a car stereo installation and I've done at least 3 of those in the last few years. What I'm trying to figure out today is if the 09 connectors are compatible with the components on the 07. The only thing I've found so far is the fuel pump. The 09 fuel pump uses a different connector and has the female connector on the harness, whereas the 07 has the female connector on the pump. That's going to require mod no matter which harness I use, unless I change to an 09 fuel pump. Since I discovered that one different connector, I want to cross-check all the others before I start. | ||
| Motorbike |
These kind of projects never seem to end. I am guessing that if you go with a newer fuel pump, the fuel lines and connections may be different? Not sure though. | ||
| Froggy |
That is interesting about the fuel pump. I know they changed it for 08 and again 2010, but I was told they would retrofit. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Froggy- I stumbled across an old post of mine about the 2010 updates last night. The 2010 fuel pump has a built-in pressure sensor so there's an extra lead for that. Apparently this was carried over from the 1125 fuel pump. | ||
| Teeps |
I would use butt connectors like this: http://ocw.weber.edu/automotive-technology/ausv-1320-automotive-electronics/9-wiring-repair/crimp-n-seal-splice-sleeves rather than soldering.  | ||
| Luftkoph |
why couldn't you mount the ecm in the flyscreen, I may have missed something in this thread but that is the big problem with the r harness is it not? | ||
| Stevem123 |
I've been thinking the same thing. However, There isn't really much room behind there and it may very well not be possible. | ||
| Froggy |
Leaving the electronics up front isn't ideal for reliability, the wires will be under stresses of having the entire front fairing move left and right. There already is problems with a handful of wires breaking at the steering head, now imagine another 60 wires in that will be moving left and right and left and right over and over again. | ||
| Hughlysses |
My thoughts exactly. The Firebolt fairing is mounted to the frame so the majority of the wires leading from the relay box, fuse box (they're two separate pieces on the Firebolt), and ECM don't have to flex. I spent a couple of hours studying the wiring schematics and associated part numbers for the 09 R and 07 X tonight. I'll have to swap several connectors from the X harness to the R harness to make things work. One weird thing- the kill switch ties in to the relays differently on the 09 R. I suspect that won't be a problem as an 08-09 right side switch assembly from the Uly can be used on earlier bikes (for controlling heated grips). I'm gonna follow Garrcano's suggested means for modifying the harness. I found a suitable piece of plywood I had laying around and started studying the Uly harness to see what would have to come off the bike to allow the harness to be removed. That'll be a job for next week as I'm out of town for the next 2 days. Oh yea, my box of Amsoil with a Wix filter came in today.  | ||
| Froggy |
Regarding switches - They are the same dating back to the tuber days. The 08+ having a different relay setup sounds right. On the 99-07, when you flip the kill switch, it fires up the ECM. On the 08+ 1125 (I don't recall if XB, but probably same), everything fires up when you turn the key on not the kill switch. | ||
| Gunut75 |
I do believe Odie from Special-ops knows how to put an S front end on an R without cutting the wire harness. It's a tight squeeze; but it can be done. | ||
| Tootal |
I agree with Motorbike about splicing wires with one more suggestion. After soldering I like to smear a little dielectric grease onto the wire then slide a piece of shrink wrap over the joint. I like the wrap to go about a 1/2" past the joint area on both sides. When you heat it only heat the middle of it to say 1/4" past the joint. Leave the ends unheated so they are still flexible. This acts like a shock absorber and will keep the wires from flexing at a single spot eliminating breakage. This is the only way I could keep the wires going to my horn on the Harley to keep from breaking. They get a lot of abuse. | ||
| Motorfish |
What is the purpose of the grease? Corrosion protection? | ||
| Hughlysses |
There already is problems with a handful of wires breaking at the steering head, now imagine another 60 wires in that will be moving left and right and left and right over and over again. I got to thinking about this over the weekend, and oddly enough, it's not true. I figure there are approximately 44 wires going from the ECM and fuse/relay block to the front of the bike, but only about 33 going from the ECM and fuse/relay block to the back of the bike. Putting the ECM relay/block under the seat actually results in more wires having to be flexed at the headstock. The reason is all the controls and instruments are at the front of the bike, along with half the lighting. OTOH, the fairing on the Uly is already pretty full with the horn, one factory relay, one aftermarket relay (for auxiliary lights), and a rat's nest of wiring. I can't imagine cramming the ECM and fuse/relay block in there. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Ian- I did some searching today and sure enough, someone has installed an S front end on an R and left the electrics in the stock location:  If anything the Uly cowl is bigger than the one on the XB:  So at least it's a possibility, and there'd surprisingly be fewer wires flexing with this arrangement. I'm not wild about having the fuses buttoned up where I have to remove 6 Torx screws to get at them, and I'd have to find another loation for my aftermarket horn (Fiam), but it would definitely minimize the required mods to the wiring harness. I'll have to think on this one a while longer. | ||
| Luftkoph |
Hugh heres an idea to get the horn outa there  | ||
| Luftkoph |
I packed a lot o crap in mine  | ||
| Hughlysses |
Well, that pretty much proves there's enough room in the cowl for an ECM and fuse/relay boxes. I'm going to start pulling the old harness out and trial-fitting the new stuff in there to see how it looks. I'm still keeping an eye out on ebay for a usable 2008/2009 S or X wiring harness. The one other pre-engine install job I still have to do is cleaning out the swingarm. I ordered throttle cables, exhaust gaskets (& new SS nuts), a front muffler strap, and an oil cooler scoop from American Sport Bike this morning. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I finally got back on track with working on the bike today. Main goal for today: get the old wiring harness removed. Underseat area before starting:  ECM removed:  Fuse/relay box out:  Rear of the underseat area; several connectors have to come apart back here:  It turns out there's a removable cover under the tail that allows access to these connectors:  Everything's loose at the rear:  Time to move to the front; flyscreen off and horn removed:  Different angle- looks like there's quite a bit of room between the bracket and the headlight to mount something under there:  About half the connectors are undone:  Everything loose:  Front portion of harness loose:  On to the rear. Disconnected the fuel pump; all the engine connections are already undone (no engine). The shop manual says the harness can be pulled out into the underseat tray at this point, but it seems to be too tight of a fit beside the fan:  I went ahead and removed the fan (not too hard to do with the engine out of the way). I have a new spare fan that I think I'll install when I put the bike back together. This fan survived an oil-soaking at ~7000 miles and it's got 29,000 miles on it now. It feels fine, but I'll swap it out and keep it for a spare. With the fan out of the way, the harness came out without too much trouble (my "help" was laying down on the job today):  Another view:  Next step is to uncrate the "new" XB12R engine and pull the wiring harness off it and see how (if?) it works out with the Ulysses frame. Oh, I did do one other task today; flushing the swingarm. Special high-tech flushing agent:  I put about 1.5 quarts in the swingarm, let it sit for a while, and then rocked the bike pretty good to slosh it around in the reservoir. The I drained it through this fine strainer:  No particles of any note found. I'll repeat again with a piece of white cloth in the strainer to make sure I've got it clean before I install the new engine. | ||
| Rays |
Hugh, I was sorry to hear of the demise of your engine. I'm sure that I am one of many who have followed this thread with great interest. Thank you very much for taking the time to record your journey.  If there is anything I can do to help from afar please let me know. I do have both an '06X and and '09XT in my shed so if there are any comparison questions you hit please fire away. |
