| Author | Message | ||
     Gamdh |
Background '06 Uly with 62,325 miles. Race ECM and Pipe K&N Filter '07 Inner airbox 54K : New Plugs (NGK Irridium) and New Intake Seals 58K : Breather Re-route 60K : Oil and filter I've been alternating weeks between the '06 and '10. Last week we had snow and ice and I did not ride to work at all, so the '06 sat for 2 weeks (on a batter tender). It started right up this morning. I have a 35 mile commute to work (one way), in the morning bike ran fine. On the way home, about 12-15 miles from home, it starting running poorly. Felt like it was running on 1 cylinder, real lack of power, sputtering, some back firing etc, but I was able to maintain speed. Did I mention it was 38, 'raining' and dark, so I really didn't want to stop. Finally made it home and the first thing I did was feel the headers. The front was warm but not real hot like the rear, so I'm thinking I was probably running on the rear cylinder. While this was happening, there was no CEL and the voltage monitor show no issues with voltage. A handful of times, it felt like the front kicked in and worked for short bursts giving full power. I pulled the left side scoop and the air box etc...visually everything looks ok except for one thing. When I opened the throttle, and looked into it. There was a fair amount of black build up on the underside of throttle plate. I could also see some black along the sides of the throttle body. This is NEW, as when I did the intake seals at 54K, I cleaned this area throughly and even then it was not nearly this bad... pretty sure this is not normal. Just a side note, that I have noticed an increase in oil consumption in the last few months. I did not pull the plug yet, because the bike was was a mess from the weather and needs some cleaning before I expose anything internal. Will do that to see if its fouled. So, questions...... What are the possibilities that I damaged something running on 1 cylinder? If I pull the plug, and its fouled... what does that really tell me in in this case? If something else caused the plug not to fire, would riding it like that foul the plug? ie.. is it a symptom or a the cause? Same question with the build up on the throttle plate.. what would cause this or could it be a symptom of the plug not firing? Any other thoughts? I'm not a mechanic, I've been learning as I go with the '06. Where I generally need help is problem diagnosis and where to start trouble shooting as I just don't have a lot of experiance in that area. (I did look around the KV, but didn't find anything I could use or realize that I could use) (Message edited by gamdh on January 17, 2011) | ||
| Twobuells |
plug wire got wet... | ||
| Charlie_zulu |
Your spark plug wires look ok? | ||
| Gamdh |
Crossed my mind, but I've ridden it rain many times ( and much harder rain than today) and never had an issue??? | ||
| Gamdh |
Charlie Oh, for the record I have the Magnecor wires and the best I can tell they are ok. I did see one small spot where it was rubbing, but pretty sure its not exposing any wire. Something I will check futher when I pull the plug. | ||
| Froggy |
I want to point to a bad plug wire too. Could be loose, could be rubbed through enough that when wet the current jumps. | ||
| Mnrider |
Take a spray bottle with soapy water and with the left side scoop off spray the plugs and plug wires and look for jumping sparks and misfires. | ||
| Gamdh |
Thanks, I will look into the wire further. On a completely unrelated subject... My last post was timed @11:00pm and Froggy's came after that @10:52... Its now actually 10:57(EST)...Froggy? | ||
| Gamdh |
So, if its the wire 'jumping'... once everything gets good and dry... In theory.. I should be able to start it and the problem would go away? If so, I could then spray with water as Mnrider suggest and be able to reproduce? Yes/no? | ||
| Froggy |
The clock was running a few minutes fast, it synced back up in the few minute gap between the posts  If the bike is dry, it should run fine as if there never was a problem. I've seen this a few times on many XBs, and it has always been a plug wire that was loose allowing water in, or rubbed against the engine. | ||
| Mnrider |
Yes! Must have a misfire with the clock! | ||
| Ratbuell |
...yet another reason I'll never do a breather reroute. Think about it. The vapor going through the throttle body lubricates the plate, and the bushings, and the sensors. And...it helps wash away the crap that you see building up...now that you've done the re-route. Flame away, everybody. I could really care less. None of my Buells have a breather reroute aside from my S1W, which had it when I bought it (presumably since there was no place to run the hose into the Buell race aircleaner). They all run fine. That said..my vote is also plug wires or plugs. Why switch to iridiums? 10R12s work just fine in my '06. Why reinvent the wheel if you don't have to? And for the wires...a gray spot indicates arc-ing. You won't see wire...but the electricity can find its way through. Not only mid-wire, but at the boot where it clips to the terminal (either plug or coil). If its discolored...it's arc-ing and needs replaced. I guess I just don't understand some things. I believe in "if it ain't broke...". Stock breathers and stock plugs work just fine for me and my bikes, but to each his own I suppose. | ||
| Mnrider |
Froggy you are rocket fast. | ||
| Mnrider |
I'm traveling through space and time. It's like a black hole! | ||
| Gamdh |
I did not notice any discoloration, just a small rubbed spot. But, I'll need to check it better when there is more light available (might have to wait for the weekend). For the record, I did not just switch to the iridiums, I've been running them for 50K +-. Just did a plug change at the indicated mileage. I can also get these plugs easier.... I did the breather re-route as an experiment. I will say that the '06 ran better at lower speeds during very cold weather configured this way. I've been to work in as low as 14 degrees... prior to the re-route I had to do longer warm ups and I would still occassionaly get the 'bucking' until it was fully warmed up...seems like that has gone away with the re-route.... | ||
| Ratbuell |
My cold weather bucking (I ride in single digits) went away with an Erik Buell Racing computer. Magical piece of programming there Fair enough on the plugs, I suppose. But doublecheck your wires with good lighting just to be safe. | ||
| Gamdh |
For the '06... I had $10 for the hose and T fitting for the re-route.. but don't have the $250 for the ECM ... However... the Erik Buell Racing ecm is in the future plans for the '10 (even though it does not seem to suffer from the same cold weather bucking as the '06). Thanks guys! | ||
| Mnrider |
Twice today I found misfires using a spray bottle. On a 99 Ranger and on a 01 Escort. I see it a lot on cars and trucks. Newer units don't have plug wires but water gets down the plug wells and causes misfires. | ||
| Towpro |
keep in mind the electric potential has to be strong enough to jump across the plug gap. This can take 3-25 thousand volts to jump this gap. Water is an electrical conductor. Water can get into a crack or defect in a plug wire and the electric will find an easier path to ground through the water instead of jumping across the spark plug gap. While water is an electrical conductor, it is not a great conductor. When the electric moves through the water it will cause heat. This heat can start to burn the wire isolation and leave a small track of carbon. Carbon is a better conductor then water so now the path of least resistance to ground for the electric starts to get easier with each spark. Once the water drys, the carbon can continue to conduct electric. I guess what I am saying that if your plug wire starts to allow spark to ground because of water, it is a symptom of your real problem which is the plug wire is starting to break down and it's time for a replacement. Once the spark starts to jump to ground, the problem can get worse and really might not go away once the wire is dry. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Also easy enough to get a cheap compression tester and slap that on there and crank the engine over. It won't find every problem, but it takes 10 minutes to do and it will rule out big ragged holes in your piston, or totally trashed rings or cylinder walls. Look for one that has a little thingy that tells you what the peak pressure it saw was. A leakdown tester is better, but I haven't figured out how you are supposed to use one yet. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
Check the 77 connector. My 07 used to behave that way in the rain. When I inspected the 77 connector (do a search, there are lots of posts on this) it showed obvious signs of arcing, e.g., melted plastic. I got rid of that and that problem went away. | ||
| Scooter808484 |
Heck, If you even thought it might be a plug wire, why not replace it and see if the problem goes away? Especially one with >60k miles | ||
| Gamdh |
Towpro - thanks for the info! Reepicheep - right.. whats a compression tester  . Did a quick search and found about 50 different kinds/brands. No idea where to start. Ski - I have been keeping an eye on that for a while. All voids filled with dieletric grease to help keep water out etc. Haven't checked it for a while, so I'll be checking it again. I actually have the stuff to replace the connector... bought the same hardware RatBuell used. Scooter - The current magnecor's only have 36K (not 60K), and I do plan on replacing them. I just don't have any spares laying around (and didn't want to take the ones of the '10). | ||
| Ratbuell |
36k on wires? Hm. Even *I* can diagnose that, from right here in my living room. Spray test the intake...but my money's on the wires. | ||
| Aeholton |
Gaskets between intake and head? | ||
| Druelly |
Not a mechanic either but I have done some work to an old truck I had. I could not figure out a similar problem in that, but got advice from someone to check the spark. Well it turned out it was the wires, (well a crack in the distributor) but that got wet every time it rained. Thus changed both and the problem went away. I guess however just changing the Distributor in that case would have solved it but as I said, I am no mechanic. Druelly | ||
| Gamdh |
Front Plug wire appears to be the culprit, new set on the way. Thanks All  | ||
| Eulysses |
Geez Gamdh...wreck a good thread by finding the problem... | ||
| Gamdh |
At the risk of jinxing my self.... New plug wires and plugs installed this weekend. Rode to work this morning in the rain without any issues. A comment on the black build up on the throttle plate.... it appears that was entirely due to running on 1 cylider and the occassional back firing (not the breather re-route). The first time I turned if over.. it blew black crap out and then started running fine. After a shake down ride this weekend, the black (persumably carbon?) is gone. Again.. thanks! |
