| Author | Message | ||
     Arkaybee |
Drank the Kool-Aid (again...) and ordered the Erik Buell RacingECM for my stock '06. The bike has been running great since the comfort kit + new fan install, so my expectations have been raise uncomfortably high by this thread. Low RPM smoothness would be fantastic. | ||
| Redbuell_really_gives_you_wings |
Heya chaps!, i have the race ecm fitted and have a flatspot at 3300 rpm, most noticeable when powering through this spot. My question is, does the learning process start again with a TPS reset, if not, how do i ride this thing to get rid of the flatspot. Could it have learned this flatspot from riding steady at 3000rpm (highway speed)? | ||
| Rwcfrank |
Redbuell, your not the first to mention a 3k flat spot. I will see when I get mine tuesday. | ||
| Ulykan |
Redbuell, are you referring to the race ecm or the Erik Buell Racing ecm? They aren't the same thing. Rwcfrank, keep that in mind when you get yours installed. I've not noticed any flat spot at any rpm level but will try and make a mental note to do that once I get my new belt on. | ||
| Rwcfrank |
Good point Ulykan! | ||
| Redbuell_really_gives_you_wings |
Its the E B R ecm. Its my second one after the first was dreadful to ride which also had a huge flatspot at 3K rpm amongst other probs, this new one has a modest flatspot at 3300 rpm. I dont want to send it back but want to know if there is a way to retrain the ecm, hence my original question, does resetting the TPS also restart the learning exercise? | ||
| Florida_lime |
Ordered one for my 2007 tonight. Hoping this cures the latest issue so I can actually ride it - it hasn't left the garage in weeks. | ||
| Ray_r |
Redbull - I believe resetting the TPS only does just that....resets the TPS. I believe if you want the ECM to re-learn, you should disconnect the battery overnight (ground wire only will do the job). I'm not sure exactly how many hours it takes, but the overnight method seems to work for me. For my '09, the instruction I received from E B R was to do the TPS reset, then start the bike and let it idle for 10 minutes to relearn its idle mixture. With the surging I'm still getting, I'm starting to wonder if perhaps I have some sort of air leak in the intake system somewhere. What say you experts? What symptoms would an intake air leak present? | ||
| Froggy |
Disconnecting the battery does nothing to the ECM. | ||
| Redbuell_really_gives_you_wings |
Thanks Ray. Surging would be one result of leaking intake, some suggest spraying WD40 around intake area while motor is idling and check for change in rpm. Im not sure how fast these adjust lean mixture while cruising, but i could imagine the cycle of rich/lean/rich/lean while trying to compensate for a leaking intake. | ||
| Ray_r |
Froggy - If disconnecting the battery doesn't cause the ECM to "un-learn" its parameters, does it require a recalibration to do so? If so, how is that accomplished? Through a dealer only? If that's the case, then did the folks at E B R have me wasting my time with the "let it idle for 10 minutes" process after disconnecting the battery? (Message edited by Ray_R on August 31, 2010) | ||
| Froggy |
Ok let me try and explain this, as there are a bunch of myths that don't seem to die. The only 3 things your bike can learn: TPS setting, IAC, and AFV. TPS - Throttle position sensor. This tells the ECM how much you are twisting the throttle so it can give correct fueling. If the TPS isn't set correctly, the bike may run odd, as it would be sometimes richer or leaner than intended. Being that the TPS takes about 30 seconds to manually reset (on 08+ models, 07 and prior is a bit more involved, but 5 minutes), there is no reason to not do it. 08+ models can automatically learn it after some riding, but the 08 and prior years cannot. AFV - Adaptive Fuel Value. I won't go into too much detail (google it), but this is the main fuel adjustment for your riding conditions. You can be cruising, the bike notices you are running a bit rich due to an elevation change, and it will back off on the fuel a bit. This is the main learning thing that people talk about. This happens automatically during normal riding cruising RPMs and light engine load. IAC - Idle Air Control. This is a computer controlled valve that lets air into the motor when you are idle. The ECM takes a few minutes to learn the steps of your IAC to properly control it. Only equipped on 08+ models. None of the above are reset/changed when the ECM or power is disconnected. Your tripometer and clock on the other hand do. | ||
| Pauley2000 |
So Froggy, yea or nay to the 10' Idle up. -p | ||
| Ray_r |
Froggy - Thank you very much for the detailed explanation. It's appreciated for sure. Just a couple of additional clarifying questions. Is there no way for the ECM to unlearn its settings other than riding the bike in whatever the present conditions are so it continues learning and adjusting based on those conditions? And do you have any suggestions as to what might be causing my surging issues? | ||
| Froggy |
Nay from me, but I don't let my bikes idle even 10 seconds, gas is expensive!  Your call, it will learn it eventually anyway.
You can use tuning software and manually change the settings, but being that the bike is programmed to learn, it will eventually go to whatever it wants.
Dozens of things can cause it, and no matter what you do, you can't eliminate it 100%. Nature of the beast. | ||
| Ulykan |
I sent email to tech about the fast idle at start-up and got the following answer: ---it is actually better for the engine as there is a lot of hammering of engine internal with the low idle cold start. However it was necessary to meet emissions regulations on the OE bike. Now we know that this is a normal idle and is better on the engine. Bob | ||
| Redbuell_really_gives_you_wings |
Why dont they design a ECM that doesnt use this BS learning procedure? The only thing i seem to be able to "teach" this fn bike is bad habits. | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
"Why dont they design a ECM that doesnt use this BS learning procedure?" It's called a carburetor. Learn to use EFI and it's amazing. With a carb you get two jets that have to be changed by hand, with EFI you get hundreds of jets that can be adjusted with a couple minutes of your time and a laptop. | ||
| Rwcfrank |
Okay so I just installed my new Erik Buell Racing ecm with stock bike and 09 fan logic and went for a ride. Initial impressions around the neighborhood absolutely different bike. Start up was a high idle that lasted a few minutes but no big deal. Smooth as silk at low speeds and can now be lugged without lurching or bucking. Pulls strong an smooth all the way throughout the powerband. I am very pleased. Unfortunately, even though I requested the 09 fan logic I got the newer version and the fan doesn't run upon shut down. Normally this would be a good thing but I rather have my fan run a few minutes after shutdown that often while riding. In my opinion the less the fan runs the longer it will last. I am torn between sending it back for the 09 fan logic or keeping it the way it is. Lastly, I should have asked this question before I purchased it but if you wire the exhaust valve open can you run the ecm designed for say, a drummer muffler? Seems like more flow is more flow? When its all said and done, get the ecm, its the best $250 farkle you can get. | ||
| Scooter808484 |
Lastly, I should have asked this question before I purchased it but if you wire the exhaust valve open can you run the ecm designed for say, a drummer muffler? Seems like more flow is more flow? I don't know that answer for sure, but more flow isn't really the question... the same flow at each and every combination of throttle and rpm is what matters for the fuel map. That exhaust valve is set up to be closed at most rpm, lengthening the exhaust pat, and causing the pipe to "tune" at a lower rpm. At higher rpm, it opens, shortening the exhaust path and tuning at a higher rpm. The drummer is likely to have very different characteristics than a stock muffler with the valve wired open. I did a lot of work with a the Race Tuner on my modified big twin. You'd be pretty amazed at how a a different pipe can change the engine response. | ||
| Rwcfrank |
Scooter, I know your probably right. I can't seem to figure out why I can't leave things well enough alone.  | ||
| Marc |
I just got back from my first 20 mile ride with the Erik Buell Racing Race ECM installed on my 06 Ulysses. I already had a K&N air filter and just replaced the 06 stock ECM with the Erik Buell Racing Race ECM today. What a fabulous improvement in smoothness of the motor across the entire RPM range. The smoothness and ridability improvements alone were worth the $250 in my book. I did both city riding and highway riding and was grinning the hole time at the smoother ride and instant acceleration. I spent some time on a quiet country rode as well to test for power improvement. I have no empirical before/after acceleration data but it certainly feels faster!  Things I learned during the Erik Buell Racing Race ECM install: - You most definitely need a TPS reset after swapping out the ECMs on an 06/07. I thought I might be able to at least limp it to my dealer to get the TPS reset done, but the bike will barely run and will not be ridable on the new RACE ECM until you get the TPS reset done with the new ECM. So after installing the RACE ECM, I simply placed the stock ECM in the empty space near the battery, connected the ECM connectors to the old stock ECK and rode it to Conrads HD/Buell where they swapped the connectors over to the Erik Buell Racing RACE ECM which is in the ECM mounting location and they completed the TPS reset for me for a very small fee. - I would recommend doing the Erik Buell Racing RACE ECM Upgrade in tandem with the Comfort Kit Install (if you can still find one) as you will be messing with the same ECM mounting bolt anyway. Whomever engineered the Comfort Kit ECM mounting bolt "spinny nut" needs to be shot and owes me three hours of lost time and frustration. So that I don't suffer from "ECM Spinny nut" ever again, I did what RatBuell did to his Ulysses. Here is a link to Ratbuell's ECM mounting bolt enhancement description.... http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?tpc=142838&post=1903721#POST1903721 For the ECM mount improvement, I bought a longer allen head bolt which was 1/4 inch longer than the stock bolt. I can reach the allen head bolt from underneath next to the rear spring with a long allen wrench with the circular allen tip head that allows off center/angled entry ot the allen head. The top seat side of the ECM plastic wing nut is secured with a nut snugged down on the plastic wing nut. The Plastic wing nut is cut down a bit to fit the nut. I recommend lock tite'ing the nut to ensure that the nut/bolt does not loosen and drop the bolt into your spring where it could do some damage. Not too much...just a little as you don't want to fight spinny nut ever again. Thanks Erik Buell for your continued great products and support of your legendary bikes! | ||
| Gambito |
I've had a somewhat different experience than those who report that the ECM immediately makes the bike feel better - on my first ride, the bike hesitated when accelerating and would surge at certain revs. As I kept riding the bike I could feel it improving all the time as the ECM adjusted the mapping, but it wasn't until about 100km of travel that it would pull cleanly through 4000-4500 rpm without some hesitation. It now feels much stronger, especially above 5000 rpm, but it wasn't great right out of the box... I received no instructions with my order, but did perform a TPS reset before riding. Since I've previously read about holding steady RPM for the ECM to learn, I did that a few different revs, and it's amazing to feel it actually adjust and improve the performance. Is there a procedure documented for calibrating the new ECM? Did anyone get instructions from Erik Buell Racing with their order? | ||
| Arkaybee |
I did not get any instructions. I specifically asked in writing at time of order if there were any needed, and received no response. | ||
| Ourdee |
With the bike off I pulled the front plug then the rear out of the stock ECM. Then unbolted it and bolted down the new ECM. Hooked up the front plug then the rear. I started the bike and went for a ride. With a few tanks of fuel through it since the install, Gas mileage is up at 45 to 46 MPG. I was getting 43 to 44 prior to the change on the same route to and from work. I may have to take it easy for a tank to see what I can get out of it....na. | ||
| Bttrthnwrk |
I finallly got my race ECM installed late this afternoon, with the help of my youngest son, Justin. He's taller than I am, and his fingers are longer. I thoguht maybe they'd fit up under the seat better than mine do, trying to get at the front bolt from underneath without disassembling the seat rails. The front bolt holding the old one had just been spinning. We tried everything. Fingers. 10" long offset needle nose. We even broke out my LCD inspection camera, with the 3 foot long lens snake to make sure we were grabbing the right nut underneath there. Combination wrenches and 45 degree needle nose from the top, levered between the new comfort kit duct and the seat pan. The best luck we had was from the top, levering between the duct and the seat pan with the 45 degree needle nose. The pliers kept slipping off, though, even from there. We must have looked like a couple of Keystone klutzes. Nothing worked until the last thing we tried (naturally enough, I guess). I undid the back ECM bolt, and we levered and pried the ECM until the front nut popped though the plastic seat pan. Pop! And we were done. The hole wasn't too badly mangled to reuse, either. Even after getting the nut and bolt out of the seat pan, it was pretty tough getting them apart. Much tougher than a nylock nut normally is. I wonder if whoever installed the comfort kit (me) put locktite on the bolt before screwing it down during the installation. Maybe I'll ask whoever that was... When reattaching the new race ECM, I did the "bolt from below" trick of Ratbuell's, making sure I had a couple of fair sized flat washers layered above and blow the slightly mangled hole through the seat pan. Then I put on a nylock nut, then added the race ECM - I had already enlarged the bottom of the front bolt hole in the ECM to accomodate the nylock nut fitting underneath it. I then added the black plastic stand-off and a sleeve nut. This is a nut about 5/8 or maybe even 3/4 of an inch long that I used to hold down the plastic standoff. It's long enough that I can easily turn it from the top with a pair of needle nose, and then just drop in the stock ECM if it ever has to go into the shop - just to make sure that the race ECM doesn't get flashed accidentally. I'll trade back to the race ECM once I get the bike back from the trip to the shop. When/if I make a trip like that, that is. I know I will, at some point. I did the TPS reset. So, I went for a quicky 50 mile ride after dark. It had cooled clear down to about 87 by that time. '09 12X with the comfort kit, but it never had the comfort kit reflash. In all, the fan ran more while I was riding than normal, but still was on when I stopped, and for awhile after that, too. It wasn't running on high after I stopped, though, and stopped sooner than "normal". That's different. High initial idle - about 15-1700 RPM at first. Slowed down before too long. I was able to pull away without giving the bike any gas at all. Just a tiny little bit of jerking while idling down the street in front of my house. Smoother and definitely zippier across the RPM range, up to about 6500, where I stopped accelerating. I can already see that this race ECM is going to get me in some trouble, if I'm not REAL careful. Never got the front wheel up, but didn't really try, to tell the truth. I'm not much of a wheelie person. | ||
| Echo15 |
My results: Did not experience the higher idle; no changes there. It does run overall smoother and lower RPM engine speeds are easier to dial in. The "seat of the pants dyno" doesn't record HP or Torque improvements... just an overall smoothing out of engine manners. | ||
| Echo15 |
My results: Did not experience the higher idle; no changes there. It does run overall smoother and lower RPM engine speeds are easier to dial in. The "seat of the pants dyno" doesn't record HP or Torque improvements... just an overall smoothing out of engine manners. | ||
| Jim_williams |
I just installed mine last week and echo Echo15's comments! The only difference is mine definitely idles higher when cold. Fan operation is now ala 2010 which I asked for. I wouldn't say the bike is all that different, other than it is much smoother across the rev range. It's no faster. Just a cleaner power delivery. Biggest thing I've noticed is that it is much more comfortable at 4000-4500 range. I would find, esp. on the freeway that it was less eager to cruise in that range so I'd upshift to 5th. 5th gear is most definitely overdrive now! Also, the bike is alot more comfortable in second at 4000rpm now. On the back roads near my house that I ride often, I'd be shifting 2nd/3rd often. Now, it's 2nd gear torquey riding most of the time. Nice! | ||
| Barkbuster |
Well, I bit the bullet and road up to Erik Buell Racing and bought an ecm for my 08 stock xb12xt.Installed it in the parking lot did a tps reset and road around from the race shop about an hour so it could re learn.Didn`t take much time to learn though. Right off the bat it was smoother than the latest and greatest stock flash I had. After tooling thru East Troy I headed for some county roads and did some 2000rpm to redline 3rd gear rollons and it learned. When I came back thru town at a putt putt sub 2000 rpm the thing just cruised. No cough or surging and smooth.Did 140 miles on that tank half on the original ecm and half on the race ecm 47.5 mpg! and that was with the full throttle runs. Gonna do some more alphabet road hunting this week in s.w.Wi. let ya all know how it goes l8r bb |
