| Author | Message | ||
     Mark_weiss |
With a brand new battery and a brand new voltage regulator I had a reading of 13.7 volts at 3k rpm. I was happy. I was also soon to be sad. The bike is not charging. Well not much. The 13.7 reading was just the result of a fully charged battery and a little help from the alternator. What the system IS doing is boosting the battery voltage by .2 to .3 volts. With a fresh 13.5 battery, I got a reading of 13.7 and was happy. Checking again after the CEL came on and i needed a jumpstart (Surprise!!) to get home. With the battery down to 12.4, charging voltage peaks at 12.7. I took the battery out and charged it overnight (smart-charger set at 2A). When I checked mid-day today, the battery was at 12.9 and "charging" leveled off at 13.2. Just now, the battery is at 12.6 and boosted to 12.8 when "charging". With the bike running, I can unplug the VR output and read the battery voltage. When I plug the VR back in, the reading jumps .2 to .3, but that is all. Stator output is 22.5 vac at idle, same for both windings. I don't know where to go from here. Mark SE AZ | ||
| Mark_weiss |
Just got home, here are the latest stats. Voltage checked at battery: Key on, engine cut-off on: 12.7 volts. At idle: 12.6 v. At 3k rpm: stabilized at 12.9 v At 4k rpm: stabilized at 13.0 v Hooked up an ammeter too: Idling: -2.7a 3k rpm: +1.5a 4k rpm: +1.5a Mark SE AZ (Message edited by mark_weiss on August 19, 2010) | ||
| Rotorhead |
Mark, Doesn't the stator have 3 windings? Three wires checked to ground should give about 30-40 VAC each at 3000 RPM. Also it should be between 13- 14 VDC at 3000 RPM. I'm quoting off memory here not the book so I might be talking out of line. I had only one winding go bad and the same results you are having. There was output but not enough to keep things running and charge the battery back up. | ||
| Matchanu |
Easy test. Open up the primary chain inspection port, (two bolts, left side of bike above the clutch port). Take a wiff. If it stinks (you'll know it), your stator is toast. You'll need to change all three components, stator, VR, and battery. Once one fails, they all fail. Changing mine as soon as the parts come in. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
Rotorhead, I have an '08, only two windings. I was surprised to only find two conductors when I opened the connection. Mark SE AZ | ||
| Rotorhead |
sorry bout 06-08 confusion. At least my memory isn't lapsing as fast as I thought. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
The alternator seems to be OK. I'm getting about 22vac at idle and about 30 at 3k rpm. Using my old VR, the one that allows over-voltage charging, output to the battery at 3k rpm is about 15 vdc and 8.5a of current. At 4k rpm, voltage climbs to 16+ and current increases to 13a. There seems to be no shortage of electrons from the alternator. I tried the sniff test, but it is hard to tell. I use Rotella which kind of stinks anyway. Did not seem unusually stinky. My battery charges fine on my smart charger (Schumacher 1200), no indication of any type of problem. I am beginning to think that I have another bad regulator. Mark SE AZ | ||
| Etennuly |
Just as a matter of your numbers don't seem too far off, but not quite there, have you checked your grounds, starter lead, starter bolts, and such stuff? I have also found more than one of the VR/stator wires compromised inside the sheath where it will pass over the muffler clamp on the lower right side. | ||
| Matchanu |
If you smell it, and you can't tell, you are okay. Trust me, you will know it when you smell it. | ||
| Hotredjohn |
I had a similar problem some time ago, after re-working my battery cable connections I no longer had any charging issues. I had several accessories connected to the battery, I basically removed them and made a separate connection for the accessories and just a single connection to the battery for + and -. You must regularly check your connections on the battery as the work loose over time. There have been several other posts here about this issue. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
I have a new VR on the way. The deciding factor was that with the old VR (overcharging) the system would overcharge as expected. With the new VR, it would not charge. This told me that, all other things constant, that the change occurred with the VR, so that is the bad component. I'll know for sure at the end of the week. Mark SE AZ | ||
| Swampy |
I have a question.... On the 08XT I took apart my 77 connector, it is two pins, roughed the pins up a little, put some dielectric greas around the rubber seal and called it good. Is there anything else I want to do with it? | ||
| Froggy |
Swampy, ignore it. The 08 models have a different charging system and aren't prone to having a connection failure like previous years. | ||
| Swampy |
Already done!  | ||
| Mark_weiss |
New VR installed. It was OK for a few minutes, then died. Connected the new VR. Battery with bike off was 12.99vdc (sat for a week). Ignition and cut-off "on", battery read 12.71. Start the bike and allow to idle, reading is 12.95v. Raise rpm to 3k; voltage quickly rises to 14.00, then very slowly increases to 14.4 where it levels off. All seems OK. I decide to leave the voltmeter connected for a test run. It was a short test. Running along at 3k rpm, voltage seemed steady at 14.4 for minute or two. Then, suddenly, the voltage climbed to the high 16 range. Maybe even 17. By the time I'd stopped, voltage had dropped to 13.2 and that's now as high as it will go. Idle voltage reads 12.9 or so, increased revs bring things up .3 or so, just like the last VR. I double checked the stator output and even reconnected my over-charge VR. Stator is still OK. The old VR still allows voltage to soar. I tried a test run with the old VR to see if it would eventually drop the voltage. Nothing doing. I kept the revs low, running at a speed that kept voltage between 14.5 and 15. I suppose that if I don't want to ever go over 40 mph, I could get along this way. What could cause a new voltage regulator to suddenly fail? Could I really have gotten two bad regulators? I'm at a loss. Mark SE AZ | ||
| Gamdh |
Keeping in mind, I'm not an expert....and this happened 2 years ago.. its been a while. But that sounds vaugley familiar and similiar to my issue. While I was riding home the voltage monitor keep showing yellow and I had to keep the rpms up .. but made it home. Got home started troubleshooting (did I say I was not good at electrical stuff). Monitoring voltage at the batter....run up the rpms and the voltagage would shoot up tp 17 volts. Tested VR by the SM.. asked questions here etc. Replaced the VR... installed the new VR... same thing. It ended up being a 'grounded' stator. Once I replaced the stator with the new VR.. all was well. | ||
| Tootal |
Grounded stator. I admit mine is an 06 but there were three test for the stator in the book. All three test must be done because mine was putting out correct voltage yet one lead was grounded causing me to replace a new VR. Do all the test in the book and I bet you'll find the stator is the problem. Mine was so bad I was blowing out head lights! | ||
| Mark_weiss |
I don't have the electrical manual. What are the tests? I've tried a few common tests: Windings to ground: A= .7 ohm, B= 1.0 ohm Winding to winding: 0 ohms Winding to ground VAC A= 24 VAC @ 2500 rpm Winding to ground VAC B= 28 VAC @ 2500 rpm Mark SE AZ I did blow the low beam. | ||
| Gamdh |
From my '06 SM (also checked the '10 manual.. same except for 1 less stator socket to check) Find the stator plug (using the RX1 scale) Insert ohmmeter lead into a stator socket attach the other to a suitable ground Good stator shows NO continuity (¥ ohmns) .. not the same as zero Do that for each socket If any do fail, its a grounded stator Check resistance across stator sockets... resistance should be 0.1 - 0.3 ohmns If any of these fail.... replace stator (Message edited by gamdh on August 28, 2010) (Message edited by gamdh on August 28, 2010) | ||
| Mark_weiss |
Stator fails when warmed up. Cold, zero continuity to ground and .4 ohms between windings. Warmed up, both windings show ground continuity. One at .5 ohms, the other coil at 3.6. I'd guess that the .5 winding is the culprit. Hot, I get less than .1 ohms between the windings. But it smelled fine! I guess that I need a new stator. Prob another VR as well. Crap. Mark SE AZ | ||
| Tootal |
Mark, I'm sorry your stator blew but I will say that after I changed the stator and VR I have put a lot more miles on it and no more problems. As has been mentioned before, the replacement parts seem to be better than the production parts. It's a time consuming job but not that hard. Get the manual if you're doing it yourself, they explain it well. While your in there you might as well put in the XB9 primary and really wake that bad boy up!! | ||
| Mark_weiss |
Too bad there's no way to capture the power that the alternator IS producing. With my "bad" VR, I'm getting lots of power to the battery, but it's not coming in such a way that the VR can control. Maybe a VR for the VR? Mark SE AZ | ||
| Mark_weiss |
Well, it SURE did smell!!! As soon as I started draining the oil, the smell of toasted stator was unmistakable. When I'd removed the inspection cover earlier, I was in the garage with the door open. Maybe the small opening and all of the fresh air drowned out the smell. Just now, in a closed shop, there was no way to escape the obvious. Imagine the smell of burnt toast, covered with old oil. Then heated in a fry pan. Yeah, that's about it. Photos to follow. Mark SE AZ | ||
| Mark_weiss |
 Mark SE AZ | ||
| Hughlysses |
Don't use an impact driver to remove the crankshaft bolt. The generator uses permanent magnets. These can be demagnetized by sharp impacts. Not to mention that the crankshaft is a pressed-together assembly. The critical alignment of those parts probably wouldn't be helped by the use of an impact either. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
        Mark SE AZ | ||
| Mark_weiss |
Okay, so the first post did not get the images and for some reason the second post did not get the text. I don't know why. Total time to disassemble was 1 hour and 10 minutes. That included time to fabricate the primary locking bar and searching around for a T20 bit for the stator screws. Mark | ||
| Tootal |
Wow, yours was toasted worse than mine!! My only suggestion now is to clean the threads on the crank and trans shaft with brake/carb cleaner and use red loctite. Also put a little grease in the shifter shaft seal and on the splines to protect the seal. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
mine was pretty toasty too... I gotta tell ya.... I'm loving the 9 primary drive  | ||
| Barker |
Just one doo-dad burnt up on mine. smoked.   I have an extra 9 primary laying around. hmmmmmmm. I'm really not a low speed kinda guy. Do you think I'll like it? |
