| Author | Message | ||
     Buewulf |
Has anyone done this? A friend of mine has a 2007 Uly and installed a manual on/off switch for the fan. This caused the check engine light to come on. The current remedy for that is electrical tape over the light. Is there a way to make the ECM think the fan is still following orders in order to keep the idiot light from coming on? | ||
| Skifastbadly |
This sounds like a very bad idea. I always assume that the guys with the engineering degrees and years of motorcycle design experience would have put an 'on off' switch on the fan it they thought it would be better than having it run automatically. I'm afraid your friend is going to fry his engine with this mod. But then, I'm not an engineer, hell, I've hardly even RODE on a train. | ||
| Rr_eater |
I have thought very long and hard about this myself. Using a properly wired relay system, you could in fact manually control the fan to the on-all-the-time condition, and then when switched off, it could be controlled by the ECM as normal. I have thought about doing this for the motoring around town condition to leave it on, and then switch to normal for the rest of the time. It is possible, not impossible, though do we really need it? I have read that the fan acts as being a blockage to airflow when not turning, but then when it is a blockage, it is obviously not needed, right? | ||
| Buewulf |
This sounds like a very bad idea. Yeah, there is a reason we call those idiot lights. I don't intend to do the mod myself; and my position is that if the fan is running, then you probably want it to be. Especially here in the Houston, TX area where we are already in the mid to upper 90's. But it is his bike, not mine. Perhaps the hair dryer jokes bother him more than they do me. So does anyone know how the ECM determines the fan is inoperable or malfunctioning? Is it as simple as an interruption in the circuit triggering the idiot light? Or is there a more sophisticated send-receive pattern going on here between the ECM and motor driver (if there is one). | ||
| Rr_eater |
As far as I have researched, the ECM runs a ground load test on the orange/black wire to the fan, looking for a specific rating. If it sees it great, within it's set parameters. If not, engine code 36 (dont have manual in front of me right now!!) is set and light comes on saying HEY!!! FAN IS AFU!! This can be done, I mean we have tricked the exhaust servo circuit into believing it was there before ECM spy using emulators. But again, do we really want to mess around with this? I mean the intention I think that is being explored here is to have it ON when we think it should be, not the ability to turn it off. Bruce (Message edited by rr_eater on June 23, 2010) | ||
| Oldwesterncowboy |
 "I always assume that the guys with the engineering degrees and years of motorcycle design experience" would have perfected the grounding and wiring problems on these bikes, not to mention the wheel bearings. just because someone has a degree or has been doing it for years does not mean they are not a moron.  as for an on off switch on the fan, there is one in every village.  | ||
| Xbeau12s |
I got an idea. Why not leave your fan along and get another one? Smaller one you could manually control that would never interfere with your ECM. Just need a spare voltage outlet for it. The dual fan Uly. It would sound even more badass when your shut the bike down. Might even takeoff. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Never forget that an engineer's job is never done. Just because they sell the bike to you a certain way doesn't me it can't or won't be improved as the years go by. Notice how much the Uly changed between 06 to 2010. They engineered us a muffler that certainly would have been much better if it had been stainless steel from day one. They did always say that a right side scoop would increase rear head temp and from the increase in swingarm oil temp on my bike I'd say they were spot on. I think I get better mpg though. | ||
| Badrap |
Why does the right side scoop increase the rear head temp? It should be cooler. I understand that with the comfort kit installed, the fan runs most of the time and its blowing hot air onto the rear shock and swing arm. I'm guessing that is reason the oil in the swing arm is hotter. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
Apparently I didn't make myself clear. I am not saying that the Buell is perfectly engineered. I am not saying that the bearings, ECM placement, 77 connector, wiring, grounding, heat management system, fork seals, or rocker cover gaskets were perfectly designed. I have been dealing with engineers my entire career and I know they're not all geniuses. What I AM saying is that the considered, measured, calculated, computer simulated, modeled, refined, and QA tested decisions made by professional engineers are unlikely to be improved by some guy in a garage with an on/off switch and incomplete knowledge of the multiple dependencies of all of the bike's components. (Message edited by skifastbadly on June 24, 2010) | ||
| Verdad |
My $.02: I like to hear the fan. It makes me feel good to know (think?) my engine isn't going to melt once I finish riding in 95+ degree temps in CA and TX... Plus, it's a good conversation topic: "Dude, you left your fan on..." Russ | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
Etennuly's Uly was in run/skip mode on our way back from Homecoming.... We stopped and he hard wired the fan to run. He made it all the way home from Indy to Knoxville and it never went back to run/skip. His ECM isn't telling the fan to come on until the bike is overheated...... His problem is somewhat fixed until he can figure out how to make the ECM tell the fan to come on sooner. | ||
| Froggy |
Has Vern done any datalogging with ECMspy to see what his ECM is doing when it skip sparks? | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
You would need to pick his brain.... mine doesn't have much left.... but I think his my be worse off than mine. | ||
| Davegess |
when you shut off you motor a small amount of oil, perhaps an ounce or two, stays in the head area and does not drain back down. The rear cylinder, after air stops flowing over it continues to transmit the residual heat upward to the head. The cylinder area is hotter than the area where the oil sits when the bike is running; exploding gas and such will do that, when you turn the bike off the temperature in this increases to the point where the small amount of oil left "cooks" to such an extent that it is not only no longer useful as oil but actually will degrade any other oil it come in contact with. By have the ECM run the fan until the this temp is lowered you eliminate this problem. By keeping the oil supply operating correctly you allow the engine to run at peak power for a grater number of miles before you see excessive wear. A whole lot of time and effort went into figuring this whole system out. Some of the smartest engines guys you will ever meet developed this system. Don't screw it up. | ||
| Florida_lime |
Easy to say unless you can't even ride your bike because it WILL NOT RUN correctly when it is over 70 degrees outside. Want to try riding mine for a while ? | ||
| Skifastbadly |
If your bike doesn't run properly at temperatures in excess of 70, there is something seriously wrong with it. I rode mine in the Utah desert for three summers straight with temps well in excess of 90 without any performance issue. | ||
| Florida_lime |
If your bike doesn't run properly at temperatures in excess of 70, there is something seriously wrong with it. Sorry to be so blunt, but no shit. Several dealers gave up - the last one told the person picking it up for me (it crapped out 500 miles from home !) that it wasn't repairable ! Everything can be fixed, but they gave up. And they haven't been dealing with it like that for the past year like I have. | ||
| Davegess |
What does it do? If your dealer won't fix it you need a new dealer. Buell customer service might be a big help as long as you treat them with respect and ask them nicely. Follow Court's rules for getting what you want from Customer Service. They are posted here somewhere. The bike is designed to operate well at a wide range of temperatures. My XB has been run hard in 90 degree 90 percent humidity and runs fine. I am awfully uncomfortable but the bike runs OK. | ||
| Mnrider |
Florida lime-I hate to get involved in this but is your fan on when its doing the skip-spark. On todays cars we can hookup the toughbook and drive and check the inputs and outputs and turn things on and off. Might be tricky to ride with a laptop on the handlebars. | ||
| Froggy |
Thats where the Buell Messenger Bag freebee comes in handy. I use mine to datalog all the time. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
Lime, have you contacted HD customer service? If you've been struggling this much, you should give them a call. I had a problem last summer that would have been $2500 to repair, they picked up the whole thing. If you cannot get this right, they should be stepping in. | ||
| Florida_lime |
Florida lime-I hate to get involved in this but is your fan on when its doing the skip-spark. My fan seems to be working normally -- although I'm not really sure at the highway speeds where the Skip Spark issue occurs. I know that sometimes the fan DOESN'T come on when you shut the bike off, even if it was on before you shut the ignition off. Sometimes cycling the ignition key on/off would get it to come on, sometimes not. | ||
| Florida_lime |
If your dealer won't fix it you need a new dealer. Buell customer service might be a big help as long as you treat them with respect and ask them nicely. Lime, have you contacted HD customer service? If you've been struggling this much, you should give them a call. I don't think the Buell customer service line exists anymore -- correct me if I'm wrong. And I've been to several dealers - my closest dealer is 90 miles away. The last time I called HD customer service (about the 4 month wait for the ETS), the call went to voicemail, and they NEVER returned my call. | ||
| Davegess |
What is skip spark? Also the fan sometimes runs when the bike is on and shuts off when you turn the bike, sometimes not. sometimes it is off when you turn the bike off and turns on when the bike goes off, often this take 30 seconds or so. The fan runs based on the temperature of some sensor buried in there. It sounds like your fan behavior is normal. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
There never was a Buell customer service, there was always HD customer service. Like any customer service, the success you have depends upon the person you reach and whether or not you can get them to have some empathy. While we've all crapped on HD pretty hard in this forum, and they've earned it, I can tell you that my experience with them last sumer ended up with them working to make sure I was satisfied. Remember, in their mind, you're a potential future owner of a heritage cross bones springer screaming eagle night train. Give it a shot, you've got nothing to lose and everything to gain. | ||
| Florida_lime |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/562277.html?1277407929 | ||
| Mikef5000 |
There never was a Buell customer service, there was always HD customer service. 1-414-343-8400 was Buell Customer Service. It did exist and was of great help to many people. But alas, it left along with Buell Motorcycle Company. | ||
| Etennuly |
Thanks for linking that Fl_l. Dave, my bike was in the dealer shop for this at least three times under warranty. They even rode it 150 miles or so over a weekend and said they could not find it. I watched the tech one day with the bike on a stand hammering the crap out of it to find the problem. His methods probably used up 10,000 miles of the life of the engine. I would not let a friend that abused the bike like that ride it, so why should a trained tech get away with it. He was way off track from what I told him it did, I even wrote instructions on how to make it happen. They don't care. He even went so far as to say that he wasn't allowed to ride it up to 70 mph or he might loose his job. And the Interstate was too far away. I was told it did not do the overheat thing, and that I must be abusing the bike somehow. They told me to just ride it slower than the 70 mph that the problem always showed up at. Dave, many of us have had this "un-fix-able problem" for the last two and a half years, no dealer has fixed one yet that I know of. HD has not admitted that we have a problem, more to find blame with what we are doing. They have had my bike and others for weeks at a time. They were not doing anything to them, just making us want to pick them up and go away, because they cannot fix the problem when they cannot find it, or when they do find it, there is nothing in the book about it. How many of us heard " if it doesn't show a code we cannot fix it"? In the SM it says an 'overheat' will not show a code. Well what if it overheats all of the time?.....still no code. I, and others have been working on this for this whole time. No one from HD, or Buell for that matter, has ever jumped in to say they would help, offer suggestions, or try to fix one. "Take it back to the dealer(who did nothing for three weeks the last time), they will fix it", was the response I got a couple of years ago. That is like sending you back to the surgeon who cut off the wrong foot to have a hand looked at! If you would take the time to read the threads that are about the 'Flashing Light/Run/Skip' that would be more than we have seen from HD. There are several, we have thought we found cures many times, only to make it a little better for a short time. The frustration felt when it comes back after a hopeful cure, is hard to describe with words that don't start with cussing. When the weather cools down for some of us in the late fall, the problem goes away. I ride all winter so few complaints, the bike is great to ride. When the summer heat comes back it is near un-ride-able on the Interstate highways. You have to back off to 55 mph to make the FL/R/S stop so that you can resume riding with both cylinders firing. That is the minimum speed allowed on many Interstate highways. It is just not acceptable. I for one, will not face another dealer with this problem without risking being the cause of physical violence. I have even offered to ride my bike with them shadowing on their bike, so that I can prove when and how it does it. Their responses are that they are not allowed to do that. If I did not love riding this bike, I would not consider it to be worth the time and hassle just because of this one problem. The BadWeB community has been a great help in trying to find a resolution, but none of us(who will speak up about it) have built the parts that make it tick. So we are on the outside with a service manual, experience of tons of years in other types of mechanical trouble shooting, and the help of each other. Thanks for listening. Vern aka Etennuly(East Tennessee Ulysses - 'where the summers are hot and the Buell won't go') | ||
| Yamafreak |
My bad but do you have the C/K flash? It was 98 today in Maryland and I ran the piss out of it and no problems! My fan runs all the time over 15 mph. Please don't hate me.08XT |
