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Buell Forum » Big, Bad & Dirty (Buell XB12X Ulysses Adventure Board) » BB&D Archives » Archive through July 13, 2010 » Manual on/off switch for the cooling fan? « Previous Next »

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Archive through June 28, 2010Florida_lime30 06-28-10  05:16 pm
Archive through June 24, 2010Yamafreak30 06-24-10  11:11 pm
         

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Skinstains
Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 05:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I don't want to give bad info here and am shooting from memory. The ECM will not give a CEL if you don't let it know that you are running the fan without it's ok. you need to isolate your wiring to the fan with a diode. the arrow on the diode you are speaking of shows the direction of electron flow. If placed in between your auxiliary switch and the ECM it will not let the ECM know you are bypassing it. I do not remember the color or colors of the wires and don't even know if I put one or two diodes in. One may work but two can't hurt. Be sure to check the functionality of all your work before making it permanent, as in soldering, taping, and burying it in the harness. Keep us posted so I know if I have to rip my bike apart to see what I did. Oh yeah, I almost forgot, I use the same color wires as the wiring diagram in the shop manual shows so it will make it easier down the road to recall what was done. Remember I opened with "I am shooting from memory" well my memory sucks.

(Message edited by skinstains on June 28, 2010)
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Etennuly
Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 01:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So basically put a directional flow diode between the fan power lead(black and orange wire) where it has the switch lead hooked in, and the now un-hooked wire on the ECM plug.....right?

That will allow the ECM to think that it has turned the fan on.

Will the diode's direction be flowing away from the ECM's plug? Or will it be towards the ECM's plug?

I'm guessing that it should be flowing in the direction of the ECM. Is that correct?
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Rr_eater
Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 02:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

AFAIK, the ECM circuit works both ways, hence the problem with a diode.

The ECM "looks" down the wire when the fan is not operating, looking to see if it is even hooked up, IE to make sure it is or is not connected, and that it is not shorted to ground, IE burned out.

When you cut the wire, it cannot "see" the fan, hence check engine light. If the ECM is looking, and you suddenly supply ground to the wire to manually turn it on, and the ECM has not commanded it on, it "sees" the ground, and thinks the fan has shorted.

When the ECM supplies ground through the fan control circuit, and turns the FET that drives the fan on, it "knows" there should be a ground, thus it ignores the feedback while driving the fan circuit.

If the ECM "commands" the fan off, and say you have your switch activated to keep it running, the ECM will see this as a grounded or failed fan, and CEL again.

This is a 2 way street operationally, hence the issue with just dropping a ground on the fan, UNLESS the CEL does not bother you.

MY QUESTION in all this, is if I just tap the wire, not cut it, and I supply a ground, will it damage the ECM?? Most people can live with the CEL I think, but if it is going to fry the ECM, not going that route.

Bruce
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Skinstains
Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 12:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Maybe my CEL is broke !!! I'll have to look in to it.
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Rr_eater
Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 09:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Skin

Mind you, this is what I believe based on my experiments. I COULD BE WRONG, and if I am, that solves a ton of problems and questions.

Bruce
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Etennuly
Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 09:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

O.K. then, how about this.....what if you put a fan on the oil cooler. Use the black and orange wire to the ECM as a control for it.

As in; Bat+, fuse link, wire to fan, fan motor, wire back to black and orange lead for ECM. Set it up as a pulling fan on the inside of the oil cooler, give it a half inch of clearance, and who cares when it is on or off. If it does come in it helps, if it does not, it is not in the way.
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Electraglider_1997
Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2010 - 12:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Etennuly,
Treadmarks did this already.
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/499181.html?1253985383
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Etennuly
Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2010 - 06:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yep! I saw that when he did it, 'twas a great job. Not the 'what for' I mean.

I am looking to just find a little load that appeases the ECM so that it will be happy enough to turn the CEL off for the fan disconnect reason.
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Etennuly
Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2010 - 08:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So have any of you got results to report? You have had a long weekend to get out and ride, and it was hot out there.....what say you?
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Rr_eater
Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2010 - 09:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My brother is in the process of finishing up a prototype module to accomplish all we want the switch to do. Be able to turn the fan on and off at the switch, at the same time allowing the computer to have full control at all times.

With what we have designed, should be pretty neat and simple

Bruce
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Etennuly
Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2010 - 03:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I figured that would be possible for someone smarter than me. Looking forward to see your results.
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Garrcano
Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2010 - 06:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

+1
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Etennuly
Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2010 - 10:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

By full control I hope it does not switch the fan off when I want it to be on! That is the problem now.
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Stevem123
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2010 - 11:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey guys, from my understanding of the fan circuit, the ECM provides the ground for the fan to run and has a current limiting device within to limit the current through the ground to run the fan in slow speed.
Rather than disconnecting the fan from the ECM, why not just run a parallel ground from battery negative or one of the ground lugs through a switch to the black orange wire at the ECM without disconnecting it from the ECM. The parallel ground when switched on would bypass the current through the switch and the load through the ECM would be reduced. It may still allow the ECM to see the fan without tripping the CEL. I don't know what the ECM is looking at but it may just be looking at current spikes instead of actual load to see the fan running thus the parallel ground switch may just work to eliminate the CEL when switched on. Otherwise it may be necessary to install a load resistor at the black/orange wire to mimmick the fan load.
However though, the current for the fan going through the ECM normally is probably causing enough heat within the ECM to be effecting other components within the ECM to be causing the run/skip mode to be tripped on thus the load resistor would cause the same symptom we are currently trying to eliminate. I wish I had a schematic of the ECM itself to figure out what is actually going on and find a best solution to the problem. It could just be the ECM is getting too damn hot under the seat and damaging it beyond any permanent solution. It's tempting to move the ECM to another location where it doesn't get so damned hot, but that's a pretty big mod for the average joe.
Just things to ponder over.......
BC Steve
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Etennuly
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2010 - 01:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I had thought about that, but what I see is that with the positive lead coming through the fan motor where it is not a direct 'to ground', the ECM might read that the fan's motor is shorted to ground and not working properly anyway. Right? If your ECM's fan input reads 'dead short' would that not bring on the CEL in itself?

That, and because the actual ground is on the other side of the ECM's control function.

That is why I am thinking a 'sudo' fan load would trick the ECM into thinking it still has control of 'a' fan motor.
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Stevem123
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2010 - 05:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hmmm, you may be right as I think about your logic.

I still think the ECM is overheating through the current to run the fan or a combination of that and the heat under the seat pan.

BC Steve
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Etennuly
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2010 - 09:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks! I seldom get accused of actually having logic!


but I did stay in a Holiday Inn one time!
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