| Author | Message | ||
     Ogre_fl |
I was looking at the Palmer web site when I saw the mount saver. The description of how a failing mount feels under brakeing matches what I feel and had dismissed as the pulsing brake syndrome that many note. Perhaps the vibes I dont like (and did not notice during my test ride) are in fact due to an already failing front mount. What do you think?   (Message edited by ogre_fl on May 13, 2010) | ||
| Firstbatch |
Ogre....IMHO it is a maybe. I think in your picture I can see a dark sliver in the rubber that "may" be the start of tearing. It certainly has not collapsed as many do when complete failure occurs Typically when the front isolator fails the rubber tears fully and results in the space between the mount bolt head and the mount frame collapsing together and you lose the "isolation" of the rubber and the vibes from the motor get transmitted to the rider as the bolt and mount are now metal on metal. Check my thread from last summer where I had complete failure and look at the pictures. Once you have one of these in your hand it is very obvious if it is toast. Yours just may be on the way. Once it fully collapses it will darn near shake your fillings out of your teeth when you are braking. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/495039.html Also, I have had both condition....failed front isolator and pulsing front brake. The sysmtoms though can be diagnosed sepeartely. Pulsing front brake should be able to be replicated when doing a slow stop. (Message edited by firstbatch on May 13, 2010) | ||
| Hughlysses |
Ogre- that mount is certainly questionable and would be worth checking. It's a fairly easy job to remove the mount to inspect the top side as Firstbatch notes above. The other thing that will cause obnoxious vibrations on these bikes is a loose primary chain. That would be pretty unusual on a bike as new as yours unless it was mis-adjusted from the factory, but that's pretty easy to check and adjust so it would be worth checking as well. After a long off-road ride, my 07 Uly started vibrating obnoxiously and I replaced the front mount thinking that was the problem but it made no difference. After about a month of thinking I was going nuts, I checked the primary chain and found it very loose. With my bike, this manifested as the bike getting really buzzy at ~3000-3500 RPM, which is normally the almost vibration-free zone on these bikes. After the adjustment, it's been smooth as silk again. To check the primary chain, you remove the small inspection cover from the top/side of the the primary cover. Push down, then up on the chain. With a cold engine, the total chain movement bottom to top should be between 3/8 and 1/2 inch. You'll have to use a little ingenuity to find a method to reliably measure the travel that works for you. Adjust the chain by loosening the big locknut on the bottom of the primary and turning the socket screw clockwise to move the primary shoe upwards, tightening the chain. After adjustment, tighten the locknut. Ideally you should check, rotate the engine a few degrees, check again, etc. until you've made a complete revolution of the chain. You adjust it so that the tightest point(s) meet the spec above. (BTW- If I had money to buy your 2010 XT right now my response would be much different!  ) (Message edited by Hughlysses on May 13, 2010) | ||
| Dmmblaze |
Thanks Firstbatch for documenting your front isolator experience. I wonder if the palmer mount saver would stop a failure from occurring. It seems like it wouldn't, but I am not an engineer. | ||
| Firstbatch |
Good question Blaze.....I have had no experience with it, maybe Strada will come on and give us the details. May be worth having the Palmer as in these new days of possible short parts supply I think it would be prudent for all XB owners to have a back up isolator. Cheap part considering it is an assembly...think it is about $85. I was real lucky last summer when I was about 3000 miles from home and it went south that Al at American Sportbike had one at the ready. All the dealers I called in the area I was in were out-of-stock. | ||
| Ourdee |
Mine has that same mark. 08 XB12XT | ||
| Etennuly |
That is just the part of the tearing that you can see. If you are feeling vibrations in the bars, pegs, and seat that are beyond normal, change it. The difference is amazing. The first three on my '06 lasted about 8500 miles each. I have had back surgery and can feel it sooner than most riders. Each of them had cracks in the center web rubber like that. When you take it off it will be cracked through the center on the webs and on the top side just like that one is. This is the last one that I took off.   | ||
| Sharkguy |
I put the Palmer on mine as an insurance policy. Don't know if it will work or not. It is just a plastic spacer. But maybe would help if the isolater failed. | ||
| Etennuly |
From what I have seen of the mount saver, it is basically a rubber biscuit that fits between the bolt head and the mount. The problem I have with it is that limiting the travel of the mount makes it transfer vibrations like the mount is bad from the start. | ||
| Ogre_fl |
Unfortunately I don't know what normal is? The bike is less than 2 weeks old. I think it started to feel bad around the 300 mile mark on the 2nd day I had it. Hard to tell from the pictures but in the middle of the black marks, the outer layer of the mount does have cuts. However I can not tell how deep they are. I will say they are longer than they were a few days ago when I first checked. Perhaps I do have the pulsing front brake too as it is noticeable under slow stops, but even then it sure feels like its motor induced. I HATE braking on this bike and I thought its brakes were going to be one of its good points. I made an appointment with the closest dealer (not until next Friday & 2 hrs away  ) to have this dang thing checked out. (Message edited by ogre_fl on May 13, 2010) | ||
| 7873jake |
I think the Palmer "biscuit" (which I have but can't tell you it does much) is intended to slow the dramatic loading of the front mount that would cause shearing in the isolator compound. It appears to me that the Palmer Puck (my monicker..."PP") slows the isolator's ability to reach a harmful, damaging threshold of movement by sacrificing itself in the face of the bolt head (no pun intended). As Etennuly says though, it seems to transfer more vibes from the start because it closes that gap from the get-go. While I don't think its a replacement for any Buell hard part with a part number, its sacrificial properties *could* prolong the isolator by stopping/slowing/dampening the movement of the isolator to that point where damage is done. Think of it as an adjunct, the first stage of a two stage isolator mount if you will. It is, hands down, one of the easiest, fastest mods you can do and in the absence of any red flag reason for not installing it, especially if you're ordering stuff from the Palmers like I was at the time, why not? Sure, fling one in the box...its only a few quid. (Message edited by 7873jake on May 13, 2010) | ||
| Firstbatch |
Good call Ogre to see the dealer on such a new bike. You should LOVE the brakes on the Uly and if not then something is a miss. I have an '06 and let myself become complacent about accepting the warped rotor syndrome ( which I think is really just a rotor that gets uneven deposit build up)....but when it was new I loved the brakes. NAd now that the brakes are new again I love the braking again. Maybe more now that I am using the HH pads. The isolator problem for me only became a real problem when it totally sheared. Hope you get it sorted out soon and can get to enjoying your new ride! | ||
| Firstbatch |
Wow 8500 miles until failure on 3 of them...that makes it almost like a tire. Not good. I got about 13K out of mine but probably let it go to far. Ok time to source an extra one so I can make it through the summer. | ||
| Itileman |
I hated the rear braking on my 09 XT and switched to some Galfers - one step below racing grade - and there was a marked improvement. I've seen other riders go with the Lyndal Golds with good luck. Installed the PP a while back and haven't really noticed any difference in front end feel. | ||
| Firstbatch |
Itileman....meaning that you hated the lack of rear brake stopping power? Did the Galfer set up give you more power but still no ability to lock up the rear? For me the best part of the Uly rear brake set up is that it is nearly impossible( in fact I have never done it) to lock the rear up and thats a good thing. No doubt it has minimal stopping power but it sure settles the bike down nice when you brake with front and rear in a heavy braking scenario | ||
| Ogre_fl |
This thread & forum further depresses me. Belts, brake rotors & motor mounts that don't last 10,000 miles. This is NOT a realistic touring bike for me. If anyone wants a low mile 2010 XT I have dropped my price in the classified to $8500 | ||
| Hughlysses |
Ogre- You really need to let the dealer try to fix it before you give up. Internet forums tend to accentuate the negatives. I've got 24,000 miles on mine and I still love it. Oh yea, over 14,000 miles on the current belt and motor mount (old belt is a spare; motor mount was fine but I replaced it trying to cure a vibration, see above). Front rotor is about to be replaced but after 24,000 miles, I think that's reasonable. | ||
| Buellerxt |
I understand your frustration and comments, Ogre_fl. For those of us with pre 2010 models you can throw in the rear wheel bearing failures! There are too many show stoppers to inspire any kind of touring confidence, and on top of that very few dealerships want to see you, have parts, or have competent people familiar with our bikes!  Having said that, I really like the bike, enjoy the heck out of riding it, and knew about the poor dealer network when I bought mine. I'm still glad I bought it and am trying to think through the issues to hopefully mitigate, or be able to better handle, problems 'if' they occur on a trip. You might want to call Al with American Sport Bike and have a short chat before selling your bike. It 'might' help get a balanced perspective. Best of luck either way. | ||
| Ogre_fl |
These are just more nails in the coffin. I made a several concessions when I decided to buy the bike. I had hoped being a 2010 would have limited some of them. I knew it would have less offroad ability than my Strom....and its FAR worse than I feared. I think I am a good sand rider (I am on the red strom in the video below) and it has nearly dropped me on my ass 4 times in the past 2 days on my daily commute. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5tst8V0Zm0&feature =related I knew it would have less wind/weather protection, but did not expect the ROAR that requires earplugs even on my daily commute. I also did not realize that the "new & improved" XT shield mount does not allow for cleaning behind it. I knew I could not put a center stand on. Well....that still just sucks. I knew it was going to be a bit low, and I do have a seat coming to fix that...I hope. I did not expect the hard bags to be such a royal pain in the ass in real world use due to the keys. I also did not expect them to leak. I did not expect the surging and/or vibes that occurs thru 80% of my daily commute. I did not expect that I would get double vision when at idle or any time I apply the front brakes. So far there is very little that is enjoyable about this bike. I tend to get more pissed every time i ride it, more so in the afternoon where the heat comes into play. The only thing I really like is the engine pull from 3500-Up. The front brake sours the handling. Now I am NOT looking forward to going to the dealer. This is not dealer who I bought the bike from and given the phone call to set up the service I expect I'll get a run around. Sorry...rant over | ||
| Hughlysses |
If your daily commute includes sand, I concur that a Uly is not the bike for you. Every other fault you've found with the bike may go away with time or be easily corrected/modified, but IMHO that 17 inch fat front tire will never work well in sand. (Message edited by Hughlysses on May 14, 2010) | ||
| Sharkguy |
Ogre_fl, I can commiserate with you. I think however, if you give it some more time to get broken in you will be happier. I now have over 10,000 miles on my 09 and it is a different machine then it was 3,000 miles ago. I have not had any belt or bearing problems. I do have a slight surge but that has lessened too. As far as the sand, I have a hell of a time with my KLR in that. Sand riding is really an art. I don't think I'd want to try the uly in it. I recently did two 500 mile days on the uly and with the exception of a sore ass I found it relativly comfortable. I'm not saying it's the best touring bike out there but I was surprised it performed as well as it did. And I was previously riding a BMW oilhead.I personally have been wearing earplugs every time I ride for the past 15 years. And I always wear a fullface. You'd be surprised how much wind noise you experience with out plugs. I don't think I could ride far without them anymore.I totally agree with you on the heat issue. I can't imagine what it would be like w/o the comfort kit.I've kicked around the idea of selling mine too(and I may still), but I'm keeping it for now and just enjoying it for what it is I'm sure if you decide to sell you'll have no problem getting rid of it. | ||
| Etennuly |
To properly quantify my motor mount failures, I did a lot of two up with laden hard bags probably somewhere north of 200 pounds over the Uly's posted limitations. That is hard on engine isolators. I am still more pleased with this bike more than any other that I have owned or ridden. | ||
| Gambito |
Just tried a Palmer mount saver and ended up taking it off. It changes the character of the vibration from a larger amplitude but smoother vibration to a harsher vibe that bothered me. Mirrors were less buzzy with the mount in, but deceleration vibration increased and when you hit sharp bumps it feels like somethings broken/loose, sorta like the descriptions people have made about braking when your mount is worn out. I'll give it a fail. | ||
| Idaho_buelly |
I would have to agree with Gambito ,I took mine off as well.. | ||
| Surfsofa |
Same here. The idea is sound, but it just made the vibrations more pronounced for me, so off it came. The thing that bugs me about replacement mounts is how much has to be replaced. I'm worried this could be one of the problem parts in the future. | ||
| Ogre_fl |
Does the Palmer "saver" seem like at least a reasonable emergency fix to slap in on the road should a mount fail in mid trip? | ||
| Etennuly |
As far as being a temporary fix in the case of a mount failing, I would think it would only be 'better' for it if the rubber was gone to the point you were running metal to metal. You will notice extraordinary vibrations well before it completely fails. It gives you quite a bit of warning of impending failure. Even at that stage it can be ridden, just not comfortably. | ||
| Ogre_fl |
Well the trip to the dealer is now over. They were surprisingly buell & ully friendly. The owner has an XT, sales guys have XB's They installed a new program that seemed to fix the surge and rideability issues in the lower revs. The bike pulls better all around too. The front rotor was found to have 2 loose bolts and now I can brake and see at the same time. The vibes are still very much there and at idle still seems excessive to me, but the consensus at the dealer was it was normal for this bike and the mount was ok. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Yep! rubber mounted engines have a tunes sweet spot. The Buells dance around at idle much worse than my old 1979 ironhead. get them both on the highway and the rear view mirrors on the old sporty are for show only! | ||
| Hughlysses |
Glad your trip to the dealer was worth while. I think you had the ideal guys checking out your bike- not just some HD mechanic who's seen Buells but guys that ride them regularly and know what they should feel like. If they say it's good, odds are it's good. Learn to embrace the idle vibes. Just think of it as a monster engine that's on the verge of wrenching itself out of the frame. Yes, you are badass. Then once you hit 3000 RPM, you can forget all that when the vibes disappear. |
