| Author | Message | ||
     996dl |
Royal Purple specifies their MC specific MaxCycle 10/30W motor oil for the Sportster/Buell's shared primary/transmission's application. While the folks at Redline's tech line, recommend their 75/90 diff oil in the same application. Redlines MC specific transmission lubricants, feature a moniker "Shock Proof." Their tech noted this indicates a moly ingredient, fine perhaps in the big twins independent transmission, but no wonder they're recommending a traditional gear oil for the shared primary and trans of the Sportster/Buell series. Even up here in Canada, the Redline Vtwin 20/50 motor oil and their common 75/90 GL-5 gear oil would be easy to source. Anyone have any experiences, with running the Redline 75/90 gear oil in the transmission ? Local non-franchised HD service shop, has used Royal Purple for near on two decades (with great success) and would entail using for cost advantages, the non motorcycle specific 20/50 motor oil and their recommended MC specific 10/30W MaxCycle in the transmission, of this new 09 Buell Ulysses... Basically looking for feedback from THOSE THAT HAVE USED, either alternative in the Buell transmissions ? 996DL | ||
| Nobuell |
I have not used Redline yet, but I did talk to them about the proper application. I will use their products at the next change in a couple thousand miles. They recommended the MT-90 75W90 GL-4 gear oil for the transmission. It is safe for red metals. You should not use their GL-5 products as it could attack red metals like the stator. | ||
| Froggy |
Yes, GL-5 gear oils are known to eat the stators. | ||
| Thesmaz |
I've been running Royal Purple MC 20W50 in primary and engine for over 10K miles with no issues. | ||
| Dr_greg |
What's the matter with Formula+? The Uly will never have a "snick-snick" transmission, but I've never missed a shift (unlike on my "snick-snick" Ducati). Do the "fancy" oils make a real difference? --Doc | ||
| 996dl |
Already some very interesting and informative answers posted, thanks all ! Anyone care to further a technical explanation, in regards to GL-4 vs GL-5 gear lubes and what is defined as "red metals..." I wonder whether Royal Purples recommended 10/30W for Sportster/Buell trans, is simply a precaution to avoid any clutch issues, like drag from a heavier oil's build up between plates etc ? Thanks to all for quickly posting on this, without any oil thread issues... 996DL | ||
| Hughlysses |
Royal Purple's recommendation seems in line with Mobil 1; they recommend their 10W-40 synthetic motorcycle oil for Buell transmission/primaries. I saw a post recently where at least one Badwebber is using it. I'm with Doc on this though- I have no complaints with Formula+. | ||
| Keith_mahoney |
I've used royal purple since the 600 mile mark in mine, but I only have 7k on the clock and this bike probably would have lasted this long running olive oil. | ||
| Reepicheep |
The initial warnings were posted here in the tuber days when lots of us liked the way Mobil 1 gear oil made the tuber trannies shift. It really made a difference... b ut there was the "beware the yella metals" warning. Myself, and others, told people they were nuts... as the "yellow metals" in the stator were covered with lacquer/epoxy. I suppose the shifter forks are bronze as well, but nobody had a problem with them. Well, years later, low and behold, there did seem to be some anectdotal evidence that more stators were failing with Mobil 1 gear oil then other oils. Nothing scientific, but enough to get attention. And while the shifting difference in the tuber was noticable, either oil worked good enough, so why bother with the risk? For the XB (even my 05 XB 9 with he non helical transmission), and with the advent of the full synthetic Harley gear oil, it became even less obvious why you should take any risk. I couldn't feel a difference between mobil 1 gear oil and the Harley full synthetic gear oil in my XB at all. So 5000 miles with mobil 1 in the tranny won't make your head explode or anything... but you also won't notice a difference. The failure mode isn't proven, and isnt understood. Maybe pinholes in the lacquer are letting the metal react and flaking off more lacquer. Maybe the gear oil doesn't like the lacquer and weakens it. Maybe it's all anectdotal evidence. Now that Harley finally has synthetic gare oil, it's just to the point where there isn't any reason to take *any* perceived risk. That's my perspective anyway... having lived through it... stinking stators and all. | ||
| Ronmold |
One of the stated properties of Amsoil (or maybe any synthetic) is how the more uniform molecular structure allows it to conduct heat better. Like holding onto an aluminum rod in one hand an an iron rod in the other and sticking them into a fire. You'll drop that aluminum rod real fast compared to the iron! Just because they'er both metal (or oil) doesn't mean they transmit heat the same. If the oil is the main cooling medium for the stator winding then the better it cools, the longer the stator can make juice. Any history of stators failing when using syn in the primary? I use their 20W50 in both holes. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Like Reepicheep said, the anecdotal evidence is that Mobil-1 gear oil caused stator problems. I had a stator failure on my S3 using Mobil-1 gear oil. When I replaced the stator, the one obvious thing that was wrong was the potting material around the solder joints (where the external leads connected to the stator windings) was severely deteriorated. It maybe that something in the gear oil attacks this stuff (epoxy or something similar) letting the leads short out and causing the failure. | ||
| 996dl |
After speaking to a Royal Purple factory tech, I feel a lot more informed about the difference between GL-5 and GL-4 gear oils and the corrosive "qualities" of the additive packages of the GL-5 format gear oil. The extreme additive package in routine GL-5 is viewed as being corrosive to non-ferris metal; brass,copper etc... So not only copper alternator windings, but bushings, some forms of bearing cages, entire shift forks at times etc... The GL-4 formulation is targeted at manual transmissions, where the construction can have brass used in synchromesh cages, bushings and other components etc. The additive packages in the GL-4 formulations, omit the ingredients that are found to be corrosive to ferris metals in GL-5 gear oils. So I feel free to recommend to my friend, to run either synthetic mc motor oils, or synthetic GL-4 gear lubes in his Buell's primary/transmission. And by the way, the reason I'm trying to determine a good premium synthetic to recommend for my pal's new XB1200X, is HD's inhouse lubricants are sourced by a bid method and anyone whose product meets the specs and is the cheapest, get's the contract. The suppliers could vary from year to year, batch to batch and I would always prefer to pick a brand, whose name is on the label, rather than just the lowest bidder. And a big thanks to both Redline and Royal Purple factory techs, for answering this and many other questions, I put to both company's reps ! 996DL (Message edited by 996dl on March 25, 2010) | ||
| Teeps |
Dr_greg Posted on Thursday, March 25, 2010 Do the "fancy" oils make a real difference? --Doc Placebo: Yes! | ||
| Thunderbox |
At least HD is getting oils from various suppliers that meets a specification. Buying an oil from someone who has no idea what that spec is, let alone meet it, sounds kind of backwards to me. I am with Dr Greg on this one. Formula+ I have yet to see a single article that has stated that it is the cause of a single problem, on top of that it is widely available and is not expensive. | ||
| 996dl |
I knew we'd drift into the oil thread routine, although I shouldn't have given my own reasoning, for searching outside HD's inhouse lubricants. I really do appreciate the advice quickly given, cautioning against GL-5 gear oil use ! Apparently it's commonly known in automotive circles, to use only GL-4 formulations in manual transmissions. It's something I've never heard of, but my automotive background has involved automatic transmissions only, for decades now... 996DL |
