| Author | Message | ||
     Unrealtrip |
Anyone use one of these? Esp 08'-09' owners since we can't really do the whole ECM spy thing.  http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Buell-XB9-XB12-08-0 9-GPR-Power-Jet-Multilevel-Commander_W0QQcmdZViewI temQQhashZitem4a963f466eQQitemZ320348309102QQptZMo torcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_6287wt_939 | ||
| Froggy |
Don't bother, piggyback units tend to cause more harm than good on our bikes. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Found this on GrandStandDesigns.com for the 08 - 09 XB SKU: 50 ECMspy Tuning for Buell XB For 2008-present Buell XB models $218.99 LINK: http://grandstanddesigns.com/shop/index.php?l=prod uct_list&c=8 . | ||
| Froggy |
Directlink also supports the 08+ bikes and can tune them too. | ||
| Brian_guthrie |
im just curious how it does more harm than good on our bikes? Piggy backs work good on h-d sportsters. Which is practiclly what our bikes are since they use the same fuel injection system. Im just wondering cause im tired of driving around the block for ecmspy2 trying to get the bike tuned in. I guess i would just rather be out carveing the turns instead of wasteing gas going in circles trying to get it in tune. Its not that i mind working on it, its just more fun to ride than to work on. | ||
| Froggy |
That is inaccurate. Please tell me which parts of the fuel system are the same between both? Nothing. The way the piggy back systems work is they read the sensors on your bike, and then typically enriches the fuel mixture. The ECM sees this, and thinks the bike is running rich, and as result leans it out. The piggy back unit sees this happening, and dumps more fuel. The ECM responds by removing fuel. You can end up with the ECM removing 40% of the fuel mixture, just to have the unit re add it. They end up fighting each other till your bike runs like crap, because for once second it will be running foul plug rich, then the next second dangerously lean. Which unit wins? Neither, and you end up with an unrideable bike. As for your driving around in circles, you shouldn't be doing that. I did mine by tweaking a map over a few normal rides. If you don't know what your doing, get help or have someone do it for you. I recommend you set it back to stock in the mean time. | ||
| Mikef5000 |
Im just wondering cause im tired of driving around the block for ecmspy2 trying to get the bike tuned in. Jeesh! How often do you need to get your bike in tune? | ||
| Jammin_joules |
Directlink also supports the 08+ bikes and can tune them too. Not according to their recent (last week) letter to us. Piggy backs work good on h-d sportsters. Which is practiclly what our bikes are since they use the same fuel injection system. What? I guess that you have a Power Commander, or some such piggyback tuner, is why you have to tune so often. I may be wrong but Buells and Sportsters use nothing at all similar to the same fuel injection systems. | ||
| Sharkguy |
I was wondering the same thing about these products. I have something similar (techulusion) on my 94 bmw r1100rs and it stopped the surging. I tried everything on it, different plugs, super anal valve adjustment, timing changes, GS air intake tubes. Nothing worked; until I fitted the techulusion. Smoothed out the bike at expense of gas mileage. My 09 Uly is surging, pinging, and just seems to run lean. Is there anything us 08+ owners can do to to get our bikes in tune? It looks like we can't even change the timing. | ||
| Unrealtrip |
The way the piggy back systems work is they read the sensors on your bike, and then typically enriches the fuel mixture. The ECM sees this, and thinks the bike is running rich, and as result leans it out. The piggy back unit sees this happening, and dumps more fuel. The ECM responds by removing fuel. You can end up with the ECM removing 40% of the fuel mixture, just to have the unit re add it. They end up fighting each other till your bike runs like crap, because for once second it will be running foul plug rich, then the next second dangerously lean. Which unit wins? Neither, and you end up with an unrideable bike. Wait, but wouldn't that be the same case for the big brand power commanders and all those other piggyback devices on any modern FI bike? I'm confused. | ||
| Hangetsu |
I just don't get where all the complaining and fussing about the way a stock Uly runs is coming from. I have an 09 with box stock fueling. I live at 5000' and a typical ride will take me from 5000' to 10,000'and back again, sometimes several times per ride and the bile has never run anything but flawless. great power (considering the altitude), no surging, no plug fouling, no problems at all! What is all the fuss about? | ||
| Unrealtrip |
My only complaints are performance related and if I try to ride it like an inline four, that and under 3k it doesn't have much umph. I have noted that the computer has adjusted over time, in that if I am at a stop and start to let out on the clutch, it automatically gives a small surge of gas, which is clear as the rpm's jump a bit, it didn't used to do that. | ||
| Brian_guthrie |
my 08 xb12r has the fuel injectors, same fi plug ends with Ford stamped on them As my wifes 08 1200 sportster. The only difference i can see would be the map thats loaded in the ecu unless there is something different about the ecu which i doubt that there is because im sure it has the same relearning capabilities as ours do to adjust for changes in the weather and elevation. I have been modifing and changeing my exhaust for the last two years to suit my taste and it just gets old trying to tune with ecmspy2. I just figured there has to be an easier way but if there aint it s no big deal to me. Maybe some one with more knowledge with the two bikes can give more insight on what the big difference is between the two and why a piggy back works good on one and not the other. | ||
| Brian_guthrie |
??? Maybe some one could move this to the technical and performance section and we could get some answers. | ||
| Portero72 |
Sharkguy- It sounds like something is wrong with your bike. I, too, have an 09, and it has run like a top from day 1. Do a TPS reset, check plug wires, etc, before you start adding performance accessories. The only time mine has ever pinged was when it was REALLY hot outside, and I gave it full throttle from very low revs. | ||
| Unrealtrip |
Ok so I did some more research into these things. Basically they are installed inbetween the sensor (EX: 02) and ECM, allowing you to dial in whatever setting you want, fooling the ECM into thinking a certain O2 value was received from the sensor, although it is this unit. The unit does not enrich mixtures or do anything like that, it simply tricks the ECM into thinking that it is running leaner or richer, depending on what settings you use, by sending a fake sensor reading. The concept is completely sound and I cannot see how or why it would cause any issues other than those self induced by purposefully choosing to run overly rich/lean. These units are essentially the same as the more popular Power Commander brand, though they do the same thing, and GPR of course also makes other products and has a lot of gear in motoGP. I've ordered one, will report back with results. | ||
| Ratbuell |
This is NOT essentially the same as a PowerCommander unit. A PC5 will alter fuel AND spark maps on a grid, based on throttle opening and RPM, and each box on the grids is programmable. This box will add fuel. Period. It is not a 'tuner'. It's basically a 'big electronic fuel jet'. If all you want to do is throw a % of fuel at the motor, all across the rev band....this'll do ya. If you want to TUNE the bike? Keep looking... Like here: http://www.erikbuellracing.com/race-parts.htm under "XB Powertrain". | ||
| Unrealtrip |
Dangnabit, cancelled order now that I see Buell is going to have a programmable available shortly tx rat  Though the GPR does have a map function and the ability to adjust rev ranges (not sure how they work that out, but they claim to be able to.) Moot point I guess, have to hold out for another month before I can send some $$ Buell's way. | ||
| Sharkguy |
Portero72, thanks for the info. Yes, I have tried a TPS reset with no real effect. I'm going to look at the plugs and wires this weekend. Going to try changing to the NGK irridum plugs. If that doesn't work I'll wait for the programmable ECM. I agree the power commander and similar products aren't that great. Like Ratbuell said, they only add fuel across the board. I'd rather have my bike tuned for all conditions then just enrichening across the board. Also, some research I performed on this subject turned up some unnamed folks who provide this service. | ||
| Sharkguy |
Sorry, I ment to put techlusion not powercommander in the above reply. I have no experience with the power commander. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Sharkguy - if you're having running issues, check which model plugs you have. They did a running change from 10R12A to 10R12X on the '08 and up bikes. Any bike we've had that had an issue, and was running the A....we put in X's and problem solved. Dunno how many miles you have, and if the bike's been dealer-serviced...but the tech bulletin about the change has been....let's say, difficult to find at work. They may have put in A's by mistake. Not WRONG spec...just OLD spec. '07 and earlier are still using the A, mind you...it's just a DDFI-III thing. | ||
| Conchop |
Techlusion Gen III from Dobek Performance is supposedly being used on 08 and newer bikes with good results. No check engine lights and smoother more powerful performance. I haven't tried it yet. The Buell racing components should be the cats meow. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
I went to the web site and could only find applications for 1999 - 2007 Buells LINK--Dobeck,Gen III: http://www.dobeckperformance.com/GEN3/Gen3technolo gy.asp Maybe I missed something. (Message edited by johnboy777 on December 11, 2009) | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Also, some of the guys on BuelletinBoard are using the LC-1 controller from Innovate MotorSports It tricks your ECU/ECM into thinking its suppling 14.7 when the engine is actually getting 13.50, 13.75 or whatever AFR you decide. LINK: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc1.ph p . | ||
| Smokey3644 |
http://www.nightrider.com/parts/ another source for LC-1 stuff and other fuel enrichment devices for Harley and Buell. These folks are great to deal with and promptly answer any questions about their equipment. | ||
| Sharkguy |
"if you're having running issues, check which model plugs you have." Thanks for that Ratbuell, I'll be sure to look for it. Are the X plugs an irridum type plug? My bike has around 7800 miles on it. As far as I know and according to the previous owner the bike was mostly serviced by him. However, he did have the latest ecm flash performed when he had the rider comfort kit installed. On another note, I did contact Dobeck about units available for the 08+ bikes and was told they are working on it and it would be a few months before a product would be ready. Then a deeper search turned up this. Seems it is already available overseashttp://www.harleycustom.in/product.php?cat_id=36&m an_id=506&prod_id=3533 Maybe this has something to do with EPA rules or something? | ||
| Portero72 |
Sharkguy- Assuming your 09 is still under warranty, your best bet (I hope) would be to take it in. It certainly sounds like something is wrong. Having said that, I realize not everyone enjoys having as good a dealer as I do. Good luck. | ||
| Sharkguy |
Portero72, yes I believe it is still under warranty. I don't really like going to dealerships; but if it persists after my sparkplug change I will take it in. Our riding season is really just starting here, so I'd hate to miss out on any of it. I guess I gotta do what I gotta do! | ||
| Johnboy777 |
""I just don't get where all the complaining and fussing about the way a stock Uly runs is coming from. I have an 09 with box stock fueling. I live at 5000' and a typical ride will take me from 5000' to 10,000'and back again, sometimes several times per ride and the bile has never run anything but flawless. great power (considering the altitude), no surging, no plug fouling, no problems at all! What is all the fuss about?"" Apparently, your bike lacks the characteristic Buell quirks that everybody else has grown to appreciate - maybe the right dealer can fix all that!  . | ||
| Werewulf |
http://www.daytona-twintec.com/tech_download.html |
