| Author | Message | ||
     Johnboy777 |
I was reading my notes today from last year and discovered another idle setting - it's called the 'Double Idle' ... I had never tried before. Sorry, I don't recall who the original author/inventor was (perhaps it came from BuelletinBoard or here). Anyway, I tried the Double Idle today and really like it. Comparo - Double Idle vs. Square Idle Double Idle 75 75 70 70  Square Idle 78 78 78 78  . (Message edited by johnboy777 on October 31, 2009) | ||
| Dentguy |
I think the original square idle came from Treadmarks. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
""I think the original square idle came from Treadmarks."" Yeah, but the double idle works really well, too - can't recall who came up with it. I think i first heard about it on BuelletinBoard. . | ||
| Dentguy |
Sorry, thought you were asking about where the square came from. I no read good. | ||
| Raceautobody |
Johnboy, Thanks for the video. That was funny, I needed that today. "Let's put the camera down" Al | ||
| Supertoon |
Wow, that is a smooth running Uly, the signals didn't seem to be bobbing around too much either. Double idle eh, I suppose I need emcspy to make the adjustments..... | ||
| Jphish |
JohnBoy - UH...I didn't find that tutorial all that much help. Maybe I missed the informative part, or perhaps ya need to start with the camera duck taped to your head. Don't put the tape over the lens though.  That was a HOOT! | ||
| Snowscum |
What were the original numbers in those cells? | ||
| Johnboy777 |
""What were the original numbers in those cells?"" Stock Fuel Map--  Double Idle Fuel Map--  It's not just the double idle that has been changed on my fuel map - they have changed a good deal overall, over the last 2 yrs. One thing that i actually wanted to show in the video (before it all went stupid -sorry) was that I could pull away from a stop at 1,000 RPM and cruise along in 2nd gear at 1,500 RPM...very cool. Hope this helps...John | ||
| Froggy |
Do you have a breather reroute? | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Pardon my ignorance but when the ECM goes to closed loop, how does the O2 sensor figure into this fuel mapping? What runs what? What exactly do those numbers mean? Does it run richer because the numbers are for the most part larger? | ||
| Sanchez |
"This video has been removed by the user." ? | ||
| Johnboy777 |
EG: ""What exactly do those numbers mean?"" Hey EG, I don't have a clue - microseconds of the injector's operation - what's a microsecond? A very tiny part of a second? To me it's information I don't need to know, honestly. But if this is of interest, start here: http://steveturnbull.co.uk/buell/buelltuningguidev 1.3.doc All of my tuning has been by the seat of my pants - I don't care to dyno it because i don't care how much HP I'm producing - just (and only) 'drivability' - on throttle response. IMHO, you go chasing HP and you can end up with a temperamental machine which makes great dyno numbers, and is not fun to ride. Air-cooled engines like to run rich, it makes them run cooler, and last longer, but the trade off is lower MPG. Our bikes, on the other hand, are set up from the factory to run lean for the EPA regs...period. and in so doing, they get great MPG....big deal. Once again, the reason our bikes are so temperamental (some yes- some no) is that Buell was caught trying to operate in that fine line of HP and EPA regs. Without the EPA regs, its no big deal getting our bikes to run great. The only changes I made to my Fuel Map were to fix what I considered fuel management flaws. A. A severe (once almost fatal) stumble off idle B. Lean spot at 1,800 - 2,400 C. The classic flat spot at 3,000 D. Inability to cruse at 2,500 E. Inability to crawl at 1,200 or so in parking lots So I addressed these issues (w/ the help of Rob, the Buell tech @ New castle HD who told me where to fatten up the map) one issue at a time over the last two years or so. Also, my bike may have some inherent problem which I simply covered up by adjusting the Fuel Map as i have (making the Fuel Map only good for my bike)...it's possible, I would think, but who knows. When I got the bike, it was pretty much un-ridable...and the HD dealers (prior to NC HD) didn't want to hear it. So what i am really saying here is that it works for me, and EVERYTHING I know from doing this has been by trial and error' ... probably the dumbest, and slowest, way one can go about this. . | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Johnboy, Thanks for the explanation. I'm trying to digest the fact that in some places the new numbers are actually shy of the stock numbers. What kind of mpg are you getting with this fuel mapping? If the AFV learns then what does the fuel map do? I just haven't gotten this stuff straight in my very thick skull. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
""I just haven't gotten this stuff straight in my very thick skull."" Me neither! ..but I do it anyway "I'm trying to digest the fact that in some places the new numbers are actually shy of the stock numbers" For me, those areas aren't important - my Fuel Map is part race map, part stock map and two parts vendor maps (two different vendors). I never crack my throttle 'wide open' below 2,400 RPM ... I think for the most part, that's where they are leaner, right? Vertical column TPS (throttle position - 10/15 = closed) and horizontal column is RPM. ""What kind of mpg are you getting with this fuel mapping"" I think I was getting 42-45 the last time I ck'd...but that was a year ago. ""If the AFV learns then what does the fuel map do?"" Bingo! EG, that's the minefield - there is a 'threshold' or point at which increasing the Fuel Map just a few points (2-3) more will throw off the AFV in a big way... the key, for me, has been to find those threshold points then back off slightly, so as NOT to adversely effect the AFV. Only increase the Fuel Map as much as you need to to solve any given issue, but no more. Which reminds me..."Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler""...Albert Einstein As I recall, one such threshold was around 3,000 RPM. It was maddening to figure out. Now, my AFV will adjust from 95 - 105 but typically be/stay at 105. For the record, I've had experts tell me that what i am doing doesn't make sense - I can only say what works for me. Hope this helps... have a great weekend! . | ||
| Snowscum |
So doing a little comparing you have a fatter map in the ride able range. And leaner up towards red line. So that was your doing? | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Here's a better LINK for Steve's Tuning Guide: http://www.ecmspy.com/download/BuellTuningGuide_EN _V1.6.pdf Thanks, Gunther ... you're the best! . | ||
| Johnboy777 |
""So doing a little comparing you have a fatter map in the ride able range. And leaner up towards red line. So that was your doing?"" My doing was ONLY in the ridable range - I ride my Uly like a Gold Wing for the most part... 3/4 throttle is plenty for me. I never concerned myself about where I never am in the map - (e.g., Zone 7 and Zone 8). CREDIT: Steve's Tuning Guide--  . (Message edited by johnboy777 on October 30, 2009) | ||
| Johnboy777 |
My take on this is that the stock map has a miserable Zone 1 (start up and idle), Zone 4 (pulling away) and Zone 5 (cruising mid-range) because of EPA regs. The race map and various vendor maps (not all) are lousy in this area because they are more concerned with HP and on track numbers than ridability...IMHO . | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Here's the area (for the most part) where my map is leaner (above 1,000 RPM and below 2,400 RPM --3/4 throttle +):  | ||
| Thesmaz |
Johnboy, Which idle do you prefer, square or double? When did you find the tutorial to do the double idle? | ||
| Johnboy777 |
""Which idle do you prefer, square or double? When did you find the tutorial to do the double idle?"" Hey Thesmaz, Hands down, it's the Double Idle I went out this morning and bought a Fat Gecko Mini camera mount and stuck it (via its suction cup) to the tank/air cleaner cover. LINK: http://www.delkin.com/products/accessories/fat-gec ko-mini-mount.html I had to use a tall extension so it vibrates way too much (sorry) - but here's the video of the Square Idle in operation. Notice I can pull away at 1,000 RPM and 2nd gear it at 12-15MPH @ 1,500 RPM . (Message edited by johnboy777 on October 31, 2009) | ||
| Sanchez |
How did you calculate the values for the double idle? | ||
| Johnboy777 |
No calculation on my part - just a WAG  based on the OP's post. CREDIT: THIS IS PART of A POST I COPIED AND SAVED---Sorry, I don't recall who the author was or where I got it. I just saved it to try it at a later time. OP's Original Post--""Double Idle: On my xb12 my front map was: 73 73 68 68 and the rear: 62 62 60 60 "" Here are my F/R Maps to compare - this set up rocks ... but I really can't tell you why. BTW, I think his rear map was waaaay to lean - so I adjusted mine a lot fatter. FRONT MAP  REAR MAP  . (Message edited by johnboy777 on October 31, 2009) |
