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Jphish
| | Posted on Saturday, September 19, 2009 - 03:14 pm: | 
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Etennuly - Thanks! Thats one of the variables that wasn't considered in my 'not to well thought out' survey - H2O in hub. However, the fact you used antsieze on outer bearing surface (ostensibly preventing water intrusion) is noteworthy. It apparently has little effect in accomplishing it's intent. And given that you know they were installed / torqued correctly, and were not pressure washed, one could reasonably conclude the design is inadequate to prevent water (be it condensation or whatever) from doing it's dirty work. One could surmise from this, that it's design, not the bearing itself, and thus the black (KBC) bearings may not fare any better over the long term. I preemptively switched to the KBCs @ 10K - only have about 4K mi on 'em - so have not yet been longevity tested. More will be revealed. j |
Methed
| | Posted on Saturday, September 19, 2009 - 03:25 pm: |
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>It has no vent or way to exit, so it accumulates as a puddle, growing with time and use.
As stock, without a weep hole, this is an accurate statement.
I replaced the original orange-sealed set as a preventative measure sensing vibration only to find that the vibe had nothing to do with the bearings. Previous owner never replaced 'em in 22k, but Jeremy had two sets of wheels so split the diff I guess. I used the hillbilly method at replacement and haven't had any issues with the black-sealed set in 9k miles.
Also, I did not find any moisture inside the hub despite several thousand miles riding in rainy or wet conditions (see HC 2009), though there was a bit of light rust on the axle where the anti-seize had come off. I added a weep hole at this time, so theoretically it should be a non-issue henceforth.
On the subject--sort of--has anyone with the 2010 wheel noticed a drain/weep hole in the assembly? I'm assuming that with the new arrangement of dust covers and larger bearings it wouldn't be as likely to collect water, but Buell's always working on things. |
Etennuly
| | Posted on Saturday, September 19, 2009 - 05:41 pm: |
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I do not know for a fact that every failure was from water/rust intrusion. Mine was. It was blatantly obvious upon disassembly. I have been thinking that a waterproof coating inside the hub may help resist condensation(if that is indeed the cause), like undercoating, or one of those brush on bed-liner products.
I went another way with mine. I drilled a hole in the hub, tapped it, and inserted a grease fitting. I filled the hub with marine grease to keep the water out completely and be able to provide a fresh load of grease for the bearings. I was riding the fence on whether or not to remove the inner seals. My concern there was allowing too much grease to pass when it is hot, and having it sling all over the place, so I left them in. It took 4 caulking gun tubes to fill the cavity, now I just give it a couple of pumps whenever I am doing an oil change, or when changing the rear tire. We shall see how it lasts. It will certainly be clear that if they ever fail, the cause won't be water intrusion or lack of lubrication. |
Jphish
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - 11:09 am: |
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Well...Nothing definitive but here's some interesting observations from limited data. From 22 responses: * 7 preemptive replacements (3 switched to Black KBCs) * There were 5 failures (of which Steve046 accounted for about half) * 7 regreased - 9 did not * Antisieze on outer bearing surface - 14 no - 7 yes * Retorque to spec - 15 yes - 3 ~no (~to "feel" or 20#) Of the failures - half regreased & antisiezed - half did not. The juxtaposition of 'Jont' (who went 50K+ on one set of red original bearings) & 'Steve046' (who had 2 real and 1 possible failure) is an anomaly. 'Jont' did regrease, antisieze, and torque by the book. Old RED bearings still ok - preemptively switched to Black for peace of mind. Not enough data points to draw any firm conclusions, but whatever he did worked for him. The only other relative comparison was a 33K failure (Etennuly) who regreased/anisiezed @ each tire change, and a 13K failure (Motorfish - like the name!) who didn't. The question of belt tension, water intrusion/condensation, and other variables is difficult to correlate but maybe a factor in pre 2010 design. Given that there were 2 reported BLACK (KBC) bearing failures, and that Buell has chosen to effect a significant change in architecture (adding another bearing and increasing size) could be interpreted as recognizing a "weak link" in the drive train. No slam on BMC - glad they recognized it and did something, that hopefully, proves to be a durable solution to the problem. Meanwhile, I will watch my New black bearings, regrease & antisieze @ ea tire change. Chow' all, jphish |
Electraglider_1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - 01:57 pm: |
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I discovered a pair of hard to turn bearings at my first rear tire change at 8 or 10,000 miles. Took wheel to dealer and they ordered a set of bearings but in the mean time I popped seals and added grease and remounted wheel to spec. When the dealer called the day before I was slated to leave for Sturgis I went and pulled the wheel and found the bearings to turn as easy as pie, they felt as good as new. It was the grease that I had added. I had them changed anyways on warranty but it really wasn't necessary. I've been adding grease every riding season to those bearings and now have over 22,000 miles on the ULY. Also Permatex anti-seize over the outsides of the seals on front and rear wheels. Front wheel bearings are original and have 22,000+ on them. |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - 03:17 pm: |
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Guess I'm chiming in late here. Add me to the "preemptive replacements" category. Changed rear tire at 4k miles, bearings fine. Changed rear tire again at ~8k miles, bearings felt notchy. Replaced with Koyo bearings; installed new belt (also a preemptive replacement) at the same time. Now at ~21,000 miles with no problems. Last tire replacement at ~6,000 miles; bearings still smooth.
I always install wheel per the manual and coat axle with anti-seize but I make no effort to coat the bearing seals.
One additional point to consider- Al Lighton recently posted info on the dimensional tolerances for the wheel and spacer. IIRC this post was shortly before the 2010's came out, so it could be that some black bearings were installed prior to the release of this info in out-of-spec wheels or using out-of-spec spacers (even new installs at the factory).
I'm convinced that the bearing failures are not due to a single cause. The Buell update addresses 2 potential weak areas- loads (bigger bearings and more of them) and contamination (external dust seals). Hopefully they've also gotten the information out to the dealers on the dimensional tolerances involved which should address that issue for bearing replacements on old wheels. |
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